7 ms·

I used to be a fairly strong supporter of our military. Not blanket support (since there are always exceptions to anything), and I wasn't super enthusiastic/pat

I used to be a fairly strong supporter of our military. Not blanket support (since there are always exceptions to anything), and I wasn't super enthusiastic/patriotic like some are, but in general I had a pretty positive view. My uncle is a general in the Air Force, all three of my grandfathers fought in WW2 (my Dad's biological father was killed by a drunk driver when he was 7), etc etc. I have pictures of my grandfather standing under the Arc de Triomphe in Paris with the tank squad he commanded. Wikileaks helped change my mind quite a bit. Among the many things they published, there was one video that really stood out: POV camera from a apache as the pilot releases a missile into a group of civilians that included a number of journalists. Things like this couldn't be ignored, because of Wikileaks record. You couldn't start off down a path of rationalizing, etc. They made you face up to the ground-level reality. I still support and appreciate the people who serve in our armed forces, but thanks to Wikileaks I have a much more nuanced,skeptical, and (I believe) more appropriate view.

banads 7y ago
>They made you face up to the ground-level reality. The news media has consciously hidden and censored the ground level reality of war since Vietnam, where they made the mistake of showing families the graphic ground level realities of war in color while they ate TV dinners in their living rooms. This created what was perhaps the greatest anti war sentiment in US history -- it was not sustainable. Meanwhile Hollywood perpetually pushed out war and action movies glorifying violence while also censoring the disgusting reality of it.
- dustingetz 7y ago
  why was anti war sentiment not sustainable for tv news stations?
  - iwintermute 7y ago
    because "Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media"
MiroF 7y ago
Manning's Collateral Murder video was a turning point in my political views. To see the people responsible for getting that out - something that should never have been kept secret - imprisoned and hunted across the world has only confirmed those views.
seagullz 7y ago
This https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org/ https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org/ It made even one involved soldier to speak out: https://www.wired.com/2011/04/ethan-mccord/ https://www.wired.com/2011/04/ethan-mccord/
refurb 7y ago
I assume you’re talking about this video. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstrike https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airst... Reading the Wikipedia entry seems to indicate the Apache’s has reason to believe they were hostile forces. Indeed, some of the men with the journalists had weapons and were in the same spot as harassing fire had come from earlier.
- MiroF 7y ago
  Have you watched the video itself?
  - refurb 7y ago
    I have. It seems like a tragedy of war, which unfortunately happens some times. I didn’t think it was some great revelation about the US military.
    - MiroF 7y ago
      If random bombardment of civilians without a positive ID is standard operating procedure for the US military (and then concealing that the people killed were civilians until this information was leaked), then I would say that this was a revelation for me about the US military. Then firing on the dad who stopped his car to try to help the civilians injured by our strike, killing him and injuring his kids? Yeah, I had no idea that medical assistance was no longer considered protected in war.
      - refurb 7y ago
        I guess it’s the context. Being in the company of armed men who aren’t friendly forces while US forces are under fire in close proximity seems like a bad idea as well t wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume you are hostile forces. And as for the ambulance - “The van had no visible markings to suggest it was an ambulance or a protected vehicle”
        7y ago

banads 7y ago

>They made you face up to the ground-level reality. The news media has consciously hidden and censored the ground level reality of war since Vietnam, where they made the mistake of showing families the graphic ground level realities of war in color while they ate TV dinners in their living rooms. This created what was perhaps the greatest anti war sentiment in US history -- it was not sustainable. Meanwhile Hollywood perpetually pushed out war and action movies glorifying violence while also censoring the disgusting reality of it.

dustingetz 7y ago
why was anti war sentiment not sustainable for tv news stations?
- iwintermute 7y ago
  because "Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media"

MiroF 7y ago

Manning's Collateral Murder video was a turning point in my political views. To see the people responsible for getting that out - something that should never have been kept secret - imprisoned and hunted across the world has only confirmed those views.

seagullz 7y ago

This https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org/ https://collateralmurder.wikileaks.org/ It made even one involved soldier to speak out: https://www.wired.com/2011/04/ethan-mccord/ https://www.wired.com/2011/04/ethan-mccord/

refurb 7y ago

I assume you’re talking about this video. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airstrike https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_12,_2007,_Baghdad_airst... Reading the Wikipedia entry seems to indicate the Apache’s has reason to believe they were hostile forces. Indeed, some of the men with the journalists had weapons and were in the same spot as harassing fire had come from earlier.

MiroF 7y ago
Have you watched the video itself?
- refurb 7y ago
  I have. It seems like a tragedy of war, which unfortunately happens some times. I didn’t think it was some great revelation about the US military.
  - MiroF 7y ago
    If random bombardment of civilians without a positive ID is standard operating procedure for the US military (and then concealing that the people killed were civilians until this information was leaked), then I would say that this was a revelation for me about the US military. Then firing on the dad who stopped his car to try to help the civilians injured by our strike, killing him and injuring his kids? Yeah, I had no idea that medical assistance was no longer considered protected in war.
    - refurb 7y ago
      I guess it’s the context. Being in the company of armed men who aren’t friendly forces while US forces are under fire in close proximity seems like a bad idea as well t wouldn’t be unreasonable to assume you are hostile forces. And as for the ambulance - “The van had no visible markings to suggest it was an ambulance or a protected vehicle”
      - 7y ago