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> systemd supporters are mainly desktop users > is important to listen to server admins that know what they are talking about Huh? I got on the systemd train

> systemd supporters are mainly desktop users > is important to listen to server admins that know what they are talking about Huh? I got on the systemd train when race conditions with pidfiles caused essential services not to restart correctly for the umpteenth time on a small subset of the thousands of bare metal servers I managed. Not a single sysadmin I worked with liked anything about sysvinit. Nearly every distro-provided init script for the services we cared about had some sort of subtle bug which we had to manually fix with our configuration management. Or maybe somebody had been diagnosing an issue and manually run “sudo /etc/init.d/someservice start” and now congratulations, the service inherited the cwd of the person who ran the init script. Or you have to deal with inconsistent log rotation behavior, or the service coming up before the network was ready on boot (better rename the symlink to 99_myservice!) I don’t know where people get the idea that sysadmins prefer sysvinit. Maybe ones that only run one or two servers? After having managed tens of thousands of them across many datacenters, systemd is a clear and obvious win.

simion314 7y ago
I am not saying that all/most sysadmins hate systemd , I am just annoyed but the random Joe Desktop Linux users throwing his opinion. I like reading sysadmin experience and what issues they have like you but also ones that had issues with systemd bugs and behavior and a random Fedora user will show up and repeat something he has no clue about. I personally had no issue with systemd or upstart or any other I used so I would wish desktop user like me would read more and comment less about what is better.
- xnyan 7y ago
  Are the uninformed opinions of joe user really influencing decision makers? The internet is mostly filled with people spouting uninformed opinions, it does not seem worth it to spend any energy caring about it.
  - simion314 7y ago
    I don't think the decisions made in Debian were influenced a lot by the average joe user, my complaint is about the discussions, my complaint is that say if I find a thread that compares all the init systems I would prefer to read expert opinions on it, people that had success with systemd but also people that had trouble with systemd , but you get average joe pasting same shit all the time on both sides. But yeah you are right(this always happens on the internet), I was also guilty of this, I remember back when C# appeared and I was sure is the best thing ever and it will soon replace all the other languages. I think at my past enthusiasm for C# when I see Rust/Go/CoolLang evangelizing why X is better and in 3 years it will dominate.

simion314 7y ago

I am not saying that all/most sysadmins hate systemd , I am just annoyed but the random Joe Desktop Linux users throwing his opinion. I like reading sysadmin experience and what issues they have like you but also ones that had issues with systemd bugs and behavior and a random Fedora user will show up and repeat something he has no clue about. I personally had no issue with systemd or upstart or any other I used so I would wish desktop user like me would read more and comment less about what is better.

xnyan 7y ago
Are the uninformed opinions of joe user really influencing decision makers? The internet is mostly filled with people spouting uninformed opinions, it does not seem worth it to spend any energy caring about it.
- simion314 7y ago
  I don't think the decisions made in Debian were influenced a lot by the average joe user, my complaint is about the discussions, my complaint is that say if I find a thread that compares all the init systems I would prefer to read expert opinions on it, people that had success with systemd but also people that had trouble with systemd , but you get average joe pasting same shit all the time on both sides. But yeah you are right(this always happens on the internet), I was also guilty of this, I remember back when C# appeared and I was sure is the best thing ever and it will soon replace all the other languages. I think at my past enthusiasm for C# when I see Rust/Go/CoolLang evangelizing why X is better and in 3 years it will dominate.