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One thing I don't see talked about a lot is the risk involved in going to college. All the frequently-cited studies about college look at the incomes of colleg

One thing I don't see talked about a lot is the risk involved in going to college. All the frequently-cited studies about college look at the incomes of college graduates versus the incomes of non-college graduates, and then compare that to the cost of education, and that generally looks fairly positive. But of students who enroll in 4-year programs, only 60% graduate within 6 years[1]. For these students, college has actively harmed them: they're saddled with crippling debt, but don't get the benefits of a college degree. Also consider that they aren't working as many hours, if any, during college, so they lose even more in wages they could have earned. The EV if starting and finishing college is coming into question, but the EV of starting college is clearly negative if you have only a 60% chance of finishing. [1] https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40 https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=40

asutekku 7y ago
Or they got a job before graduating. Tech companies actively hire people from universities, those 40% are not inherently negative.
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  If we're talking anecdotal experience, I'm one of the people who you're talking about, and if I could go back in time, I'd a) not have done any internships and b) not have quit college. But let's not discuss anecdotes, because that's not how policy should be determined. Let's keep the focus on data. What you're describing happens, but it's enough of an outlier that it doesn't tip the median outcomes to the positive. People with some college but no degree still have above-median unemployment and below-median earnings. In fact an associates degree only gets you below-median unemployment: it still doesn't allow you to reach median earnings.
austenallred 7y ago
Bingo
kevindong 7y ago
The 6 year graduation heavily differs based upon selectivity of the university in question. From one of the related tables linked in your source [0]: > Graduating within 6 years after start, males and female > 2011 starting cohort: 60.4% > Open admissions: 30.7% > >=90% accepted: 42.3% > 75-89.9% accepted: 57.8% > 50-74.9% accepted: 62.0% > 25-49.9% accepted: 70.3% > <25% accepted: 86.9% [0]: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d18/tables/dt18_326.10.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d18/tables/dt18_326.10.a...
- kerkeslager 7y ago
  Yes, this is one of the problems: many schools are letting in students who are unlikely to succeed without extra help, and not providing that help. Many students who enter college lack the prerequisite knowledge to complete even introductory college classes, and are placed in remedial classes. These classes don't count for college credit, but cost the same as college classes there's a limited pool of financial aid available to a student, and typically this pool is smaller for remedial students, who are less likely to qualify for merit-based aid. The results are devastating: only 9.5% of remedial students graduate from two year programs within three years, and only 35.1% of remedial students graduate from four year programs within six years. [1] https://postsecondary.gatesfoundation.org/remedial/ https://postsecondary.gatesfoundation.org/remedial/

asutekku 7y ago

Or they got a job before graduating. Tech companies actively hire people from universities, those 40% are not inherently negative.

kerkeslager 7y ago
If we're talking anecdotal experience, I'm one of the people who you're talking about, and if I could go back in time, I'd a) not have done any internships and b) not have quit college. But let's not discuss anecdotes, because that's not how policy should be determined. Let's keep the focus on data. What you're describing happens, but it's enough of an outlier that it doesn't tip the median outcomes to the positive. People with some college but no degree still have above-median unemployment and below-median earnings. In fact an associates degree only gets you below-median unemployment: it still doesn't allow you to reach median earnings.

austenallred 7y ago

Bingo

kevindong 7y ago

The 6 year graduation heavily differs based upon selectivity of the university in question. From one of the related tables linked in your source [0]: > Graduating within 6 years after start, males and female > 2011 starting cohort: 60.4% > Open admissions: 30.7% > >=90% accepted: 42.3% > 75-89.9% accepted: 57.8% > 50-74.9% accepted: 62.0% > 25-49.9% accepted: 70.3% > <25% accepted: 86.9% [0]: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d18/tables/dt18_326.10.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d18/tables/dt18_326.10.a...

kerkeslager 7y ago
Yes, this is one of the problems: many schools are letting in students who are unlikely to succeed without extra help, and not providing that help. Many students who enter college lack the prerequisite knowledge to complete even introductory college classes, and are placed in remedial classes. These classes don't count for college credit, but cost the same as college classes there's a limited pool of financial aid available to a student, and typically this pool is smaller for remedial students, who are less likely to qualify for merit-based aid. The results are devastating: only 9.5% of remedial students graduate from two year programs within three years, and only 35.1% of remedial students graduate from four year programs within six years. [1] https://postsecondary.gatesfoundation.org/remedial/ https://postsecondary.gatesfoundation.org/remedial/