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If Turkey intends to sell domestic cars at lower taxes than imported / ones manufactured by foreign companies in Turkey, then it can expect repercussions in its

If Turkey intends to sell domestic cars at lower taxes than imported / ones manufactured by foreign companies in Turkey, then it can expect repercussions in its free trade deals with other countries. Not that Erdogan couldn't have such arrogant ideas, but it's not going to fly like that. Also, I don't get that idea about Turkey being perfect size for making through its area with an electric car. Turkey is not a small country, Istanbul-Ankara is 450 km, Ankara-Gaziantep is 700 km, and that's not yet even close to "through" the country. Not that this is necessarily so relevant.

yesplorer 7y ago
They don't have to do anything special. Once it's made in their country, import duties a will not be applied, just like it works everywhere else. That is a significant discount on the price.
- chipperyman573 7y ago
  I think GP is saying that other countries will charge similar tariffs on imported Turkish cars
- sudosysgen 7y ago
  So far, these are taxes, not tariffs. If they want to charge it to only foreign cars, then they would be tariffs. If they are tariffs, then that will fuck their trade deals, and their domestic car industry. Which they are not in position to suffer.
- kortilla 7y ago
  Import duties are tariffs. The only way it wouldn’t be a tariff is if it applied to domestic cars as well.
rolleiflex 7y ago
Turkey has two population clusters, one in the western side of the country along the Istanbul - Ankara - Izmir triangle, whose population is largely Turkish and connected to Europe. The second, much poorer population cluster (1/3 the size of the first) is in the Kurdish-dominated southeast whose economy is based on its interaction with the Middle East. As long as you don’t jump clusters you’re very well within the range of this car, which seems to have a 300mi range in theory. It remains to be seen how this will work in reality, but on paper it sounds plausible.
- st1ck 7y ago
  Not sure if you can call southeast Kurdish-dominated. Adana, Gaziantep & Mersin are the largest cities there, neither is Kurdish-dominated. Anyway, even within western side, İstanbul — Antalya is ~700km, and İzmir — Ankara is ~600km, both over 300mi (~500km).
Scarbutt 7y ago
Turkey high tariffs on imported cars is a response for sanctions/high tariffs imposed on the country's products.
hutzlibu 7y ago
"Turkey is not a small country, Istanbul-Ankara is 450 km, Ankara-Gaziantep is 700 km, and that's not yet even close to "through" the country. " Also, lots of mountains.
tzs 7y ago
> If Turkey intends to sell domestic cars at lower taxes than imported / ones manufactured by foreign companies in Turkey, then it can expect repercussions in its free trade deals with other countries Who would adjudicate such a dispute? The WTO can no longer hear appeals on trade disputes, because there is only one judge left. Three judges are required to hear cases. There are normally seven judges, but the US under Bush and Obama used its power to slow down appointments to replace judges whose terms expired, and under Trump to completely stop such replacements. Earlier this month, the terms of two of the remaining three expired.
- ptaipale 7y ago
  If there's no abjudication, then there is just retaliation. I.e. other countries will apply punitive tariffs to Turkish (car) imports. Good luck producing an entirely new car model for domestic consumption only. Even when country is as big as Turkey, it will not be able to compete in scale, because in automobile industry, scale is very important.
rth 7y ago
Right, they can not lower taxes depends on manufacturer. But they can choose another way. Like: - Government banks can provide 0 interest (5 years term) credit only for local car. - remove all taxes for 0 emission only with some spesifications like between 200-300 HP cars only to block Tesla (whatever). Similar tricks already applying by all governments around globe. I do not think any foreign company like Tesla will change his spec just to sell their cars in Turkey.
- throwawayEV 7y ago
  > - remove all taxes for 0 emission only with some spesifications like between 200-300 HP cars only to block Tesla (whatever). > Similar tricks already applying by all governments around globe. > I do not think any foreign company like Tesla will change his spec just to sell their cars in Turkey. True and false. Yes, such tricks for circumventing (sometimes outright disadvantageous and stupid) foreign trade agreements are a common thing globally. At the same time, tuning specs to cater for local tax bands, local driving license restrictions, import taxes, or _these tricks_ is also a common thing, dating back before ECUs with physical chokes etc. And nowadays, it is a bit flip in EV's software to restrict the max output, so why not produce a local market version after a law&marketing department brainstorming and two-week R&D testing.... And nowadays, another two weeks later, instead of traditional physical/chiptuning derestriction, there is a downloadable "unathorized jailbreak" to remove that. Mind you, cars are a 20.000+ USD things. Put on low incentive and nobody cares. Put on high enough incentive and labor-intensive things become lucrative - such as assembling the car completely, disassembling the car again, shipping parts by train, reassembling the cars and bam, local car. If you can disassemble and reassemble it cheaper than 10.000 USD import tax, you have net gain (this was really done in some parts of Europe!). And you can flip bits cheaper than 10 USD and you sell.
  - rth 7y ago
    Depends! Might work for some countries (like banana republic) but I do not think it would be valid case for Turkey. It is not about assembling/disassembling or where the factory is. Toyota, Renault, Honda, Isuzu, Hundai, Ford already producing (yes factories planted) in Turkey but consumers pay custom tax. They can drop "income tax" for TOGG manufacturer, while others pay income tax. Like, Amazon, Google does not pay their taxes fully while many others pay. We are not talking about VAT or custom, it is income tax that government takes some percentage from the profit of the TOGG. Then, TOGG can sell their cars cheaper even though there is Tax and VAT. If they really want to make price advantage for TOGG, they will find a way to achieve their goal.

yesplorer 7y ago

They don't have to do anything special. Once it's made in their country, import duties a will not be applied, just like it works everywhere else. That is a significant discount on the price.

chipperyman573 7y ago
I think GP is saying that other countries will charge similar tariffs on imported Turkish cars
sudosysgen 7y ago
So far, these are taxes, not tariffs. If they want to charge it to only foreign cars, then they would be tariffs. If they are tariffs, then that will fuck their trade deals, and their domestic car industry. Which they are not in position to suffer.
kortilla 7y ago
Import duties are tariffs. The only way it wouldn’t be a tariff is if it applied to domestic cars as well.

rolleiflex 7y ago

Turkey has two population clusters, one in the western side of the country along the Istanbul - Ankara - Izmir triangle, whose population is largely Turkish and connected to Europe. The second, much poorer population cluster (1/3 the size of the first) is in the Kurdish-dominated southeast whose economy is based on its interaction with the Middle East. As long as you don’t jump clusters you’re very well within the range of this car, which seems to have a 300mi range in theory. It remains to be seen how this will work in reality, but on paper it sounds plausible.

st1ck 7y ago
Not sure if you can call southeast Kurdish-dominated. Adana, Gaziantep & Mersin are the largest cities there, neither is Kurdish-dominated. Anyway, even within western side, İstanbul — Antalya is ~700km, and İzmir — Ankara is ~600km, both over 300mi (~500km).

Scarbutt 7y ago

Turkey high tariffs on imported cars is a response for sanctions/high tariffs imposed on the country's products.

hutzlibu 7y ago

"Turkey is not a small country, Istanbul-Ankara is 450 km, Ankara-Gaziantep is 700 km, and that's not yet even close to "through" the country. " Also, lots of mountains.

tzs 7y ago

> If Turkey intends to sell domestic cars at lower taxes than imported / ones manufactured by foreign companies in Turkey, then it can expect repercussions in its free trade deals with other countries Who would adjudicate such a dispute? The WTO can no longer hear appeals on trade disputes, because there is only one judge left. Three judges are required to hear cases. There are normally seven judges, but the US under Bush and Obama used its power to slow down appointments to replace judges whose terms expired, and under Trump to completely stop such replacements. Earlier this month, the terms of two of the remaining three expired.

ptaipale 7y ago
If there's no abjudication, then there is just retaliation. I.e. other countries will apply punitive tariffs to Turkish (car) imports. Good luck producing an entirely new car model for domestic consumption only. Even when country is as big as Turkey, it will not be able to compete in scale, because in automobile industry, scale is very important.

rth 7y ago

Right, they can not lower taxes depends on manufacturer. But they can choose another way. Like: - Government banks can provide 0 interest (5 years term) credit only for local car. - remove all taxes for 0 emission only with some spesifications like between 200-300 HP cars only to block Tesla (whatever). Similar tricks already applying by all governments around globe. I do not think any foreign company like Tesla will change his spec just to sell their cars in Turkey.

throwawayEV 7y ago
> - remove all taxes for 0 emission only with some spesifications like between 200-300 HP cars only to block Tesla (whatever). > Similar tricks already applying by all governments around globe. > I do not think any foreign company like Tesla will change his spec just to sell their cars in Turkey. True and false. Yes, such tricks for circumventing (sometimes outright disadvantageous and stupid) foreign trade agreements are a common thing globally. At the same time, tuning specs to cater for local tax bands, local driving license restrictions, import taxes, or _these tricks_ is also a common thing, dating back before ECUs with physical chokes etc. And nowadays, it is a bit flip in EV's software to restrict the max output, so why not produce a local market version after a law&marketing department brainstorming and two-week R&D testing.... And nowadays, another two weeks later, instead of traditional physical/chiptuning derestriction, there is a downloadable "unathorized jailbreak" to remove that. Mind you, cars are a 20.000+ USD things. Put on low incentive and nobody cares. Put on high enough incentive and labor-intensive things become lucrative - such as assembling the car completely, disassembling the car again, shipping parts by train, reassembling the cars and bam, local car. If you can disassemble and reassemble it cheaper than 10.000 USD import tax, you have net gain (this was really done in some parts of Europe!). And you can flip bits cheaper than 10 USD and you sell.
- rth 7y ago
  Depends! Might work for some countries (like banana republic) but I do not think it would be valid case for Turkey. It is not about assembling/disassembling or where the factory is. Toyota, Renault, Honda, Isuzu, Hundai, Ford already producing (yes factories planted) in Turkey but consumers pay custom tax. They can drop "income tax" for TOGG manufacturer, while others pay income tax. Like, Amazon, Google does not pay their taxes fully while many others pay. We are not talking about VAT or custom, it is income tax that government takes some percentage from the profit of the TOGG. Then, TOGG can sell their cars cheaper even though there is Tax and VAT. If they really want to make price advantage for TOGG, they will find a way to achieve their goal.