6 ms·

> For some reason the far right tend to ignore moderates rather than despise them as backsliders. I'm not sure why. Perhaps it means that the far right is less

> For some reason the far right tend to ignore moderates rather than despise them as backsliders. I'm not sure why. Perhaps it means that the far right is less ideological than the far left. Or perhaps that they are more confident, or more resigned, or simply more disorganized. I just don't know. This is a typical complaint by the so called moderates who feel unappreciated by the left (whatever that is). But I yet to see an example of the far left who has any meaningful policy impact. All I see is a lot of whining about college campuses. Perhaps the far left in the US political landscape is Bernie who by most measures would be a moderate in other industrial nations. I don't know, but I have a hard time following what PG is trying to say here.

redisman 7y ago
It really is a bizarre setup, I think it's mostly generated by the reality-distorting effect of the ubiquitous "far-right opinion" programming on radio and Fox News and now online. The far left is supposedly in control of everything despite only controlling a handful of seats of power in the past century.
- ip26 7y ago
  It's a common trope, e.g. a few years ago the GOP argued it couldn't pass any laws (despite controlling the Executive, Judiciary, & both chambers of Congress) because of the obstruction of the left. Or see various conspiracies that involve a weak, stupid, inept, and foolish government conducting a vast, brilliant, collaborative coverup of the most sophisticated technology on earth.
slumdev 7y ago
The far left in the United States mostly doesn't exist. The corporatist center-left has given up on meaningful economic policy change and mostly just panders on abortion, gay marriage, and gender identity.
- nottorp 7y ago
  Yeah, what left in the US? They have no idea what "left" is...
  - redisman 7y ago
    The "extreme" left in the US system maps (policy-wise) almost exactly to center-right in most other western democracies. Talking about viable politicians not twitter creatures by the way.
    - morelisp 7y ago
      This was true 10 years ago, but the US finally has a few genuinely left politicians (firmly center-left outside the US), and many European democracies drifted to the right (liberals to differentiate from 15 years of neoliberal center-left parties, center-right to head off the far right).
    - philwelch 7y ago
      Er, how's that? To name some examples, many other western democracies compared to the US have the following set of policies, which would make for a far-right policy platform in the US: * More restrictions on abortion * Lower corporate taxes * No birthright citizenship for children of foreigners * School vouchers * Mandatory military service * Laws outlawing face coverings * Less business regulation than the US The American conservative think tank Heritage Foundation publishes an Index of Economic Freedom, which compares economic policies by country. The United States is ranked 12th, and is thus considered less economically conservative by economic conservatives than New Zealand, Switzerland, Australia, Ireland, the UK, Canada, and Iceland. Within one point of the United States there are also the Netherlands, Denmark, Estonia, Georgia, and Luxembourg. (https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking/ https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking/)
  - namirez 7y ago
    Sadly this is true. A big pillar of the left politics is labor unions and profit sharing, which is totally absent in the US discourse. Instead, we just hear about safe spaces and bathrooms.
hindsightbias 7y ago
Goal posts move in every direction. 20 years ago moderates like the Clintons saw gay marriage as extreme. Yet Hillary and Bernie are Marxists today. Pre-Obama right like Limbaugh always called moderates confused liberals, while the left saw moderates as strong union states voting for Reagan and the WTO.
- wbronitsky 7y ago
  In what way is Hillary Clinton a Marxist? That seems like a pretty outlandish statement directed towards someone with so much money and power
  - hindsightbias 7y ago
    You’re not aware of Hillary as Saul Alinsky’s disciple? It was a right wing staple for the entire campaign.
    - morelisp 7y ago
      (Upvoted on the assumption that you're trying to educate people about the right's tactics rather than actually advancing this position - unfortunately a lot of people genuinely believe this, even upthread, so it's hard to tell from short comments.) ((And meanwhile, Alinsky's playbook did actually work wonders for the Tea Party.))
      - hindsightbias 7y ago
        It’s been quite educating in the last few years how many in the techworld who consider themselves “left”, “moderate” or “libertarian” are completely unaware of their “opponents” memes. The opposite of course is true, but I thought “we” were supposed to be more curious...
  - TOGoS 7y ago
    Hillary Clinton is a Marxist in the "I never read Marx and have no idea what Marxism is, but I'll slap the label on everything I don't like" sense. See also: The GOP is apparently communist, now.

redisman 7y ago

It really is a bizarre setup, I think it's mostly generated by the reality-distorting effect of the ubiquitous "far-right opinion" programming on radio and Fox News and now online. The far left is supposedly in control of everything despite only controlling a handful of seats of power in the past century.

ip26 7y ago
It's a common trope, e.g. a few years ago the GOP argued it couldn't pass any laws (despite controlling the Executive, Judiciary, & both chambers of Congress) because of the obstruction of the left. Or see various conspiracies that involve a weak, stupid, inept, and foolish government conducting a vast, brilliant, collaborative coverup of the most sophisticated technology on earth.

slumdev 7y ago

The far left in the United States mostly doesn't exist. The corporatist center-left has given up on meaningful economic policy change and mostly just panders on abortion, gay marriage, and gender identity.

nottorp 7y ago
Yeah, what left in the US? They have no idea what "left" is...
- redisman 7y ago
  The "extreme" left in the US system maps (policy-wise) almost exactly to center-right in most other western democracies. Talking about viable politicians not twitter creatures by the way.
  - morelisp 7y ago
    This was true 10 years ago, but the US finally has a few genuinely left politicians (firmly center-left outside the US), and many European democracies drifted to the right (liberals to differentiate from 15 years of neoliberal center-left parties, center-right to head off the far right).
  - philwelch 7y ago
    Er, how's that? To name some examples, many other western democracies compared to the US have the following set of policies, which would make for a far-right policy platform in the US: * More restrictions on abortion * Lower corporate taxes * No birthright citizenship for children of foreigners * School vouchers * Mandatory military service * Laws outlawing face coverings * Less business regulation than the US The American conservative think tank Heritage Foundation publishes an Index of Economic Freedom, which compares economic policies by country. The United States is ranked 12th, and is thus considered less economically conservative by economic conservatives than New Zealand, Switzerland, Australia, Ireland, the UK, Canada, and Iceland. Within one point of the United States there are also the Netherlands, Denmark, Estonia, Georgia, and Luxembourg. (https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking/ https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking/)
- namirez 7y ago
  Sadly this is true. A big pillar of the left politics is labor unions and profit sharing, which is totally absent in the US discourse. Instead, we just hear about safe spaces and bathrooms.

hindsightbias 7y ago

Goal posts move in every direction. 20 years ago moderates like the Clintons saw gay marriage as extreme. Yet Hillary and Bernie are Marxists today. Pre-Obama right like Limbaugh always called moderates confused liberals, while the left saw moderates as strong union states voting for Reagan and the WTO.

wbronitsky 7y ago
In what way is Hillary Clinton a Marxist? That seems like a pretty outlandish statement directed towards someone with so much money and power
- hindsightbias 7y ago
  You’re not aware of Hillary as Saul Alinsky’s disciple? It was a right wing staple for the entire campaign.
  - morelisp 7y ago
    (Upvoted on the assumption that you're trying to educate people about the right's tactics rather than actually advancing this position - unfortunately a lot of people genuinely believe this, even upthread, so it's hard to tell from short comments.) ((And meanwhile, Alinsky's playbook did actually work wonders for the Tea Party.))
    - hindsightbias 7y ago
      It’s been quite educating in the last few years how many in the techworld who consider themselves “left”, “moderate” or “libertarian” are completely unaware of their “opponents” memes. The opposite of course is true, but I thought “we” were supposed to be more curious...
- TOGoS 7y ago
  Hillary Clinton is a Marxist in the "I never read Marx and have no idea what Marxism is, but I'll slap the label on everything I don't like" sense. See also: The GOP is apparently communist, now.