5 ms·

It's good that one state can force it's hand over the other 49?

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
threatofrain 7y ago
It's good that each state should be able to go off and do its own experiment. IMO the state rules which are the most smelly are those over taxes and non-disclosure of financial information.
jasonhansel 7y ago
Yes.
epc 7y ago
It's good that each state can determine the laws applicable in its jurisdiction. If you don't want to comply, don't do business in California.
- judge2020 7y ago
  Of course the question when you want to block California or run different code for users in California is "how do you legally and reliably tell if a user is in California"; eg. if they're using a VPN to new york could they sue you/file a complaint and win? What if Maxmind's IP database is outdated and you miss a bunch of California users?
  - r00fus 7y ago
    Could this be handled with a single checkbox stating that you are either in CA or a CA resident/etc?
    - judge2020 7y ago
      I suppose so, but it's a similar situation as GDPR/cookie consent when you need to perform 0-interaction data collection like running Ads for incognito users or creating a session that might also be used to track you on other websites. Maybe these use cases will just fall out of play as compliance when using them gets harder (which would not be a bad thing).
      - bobthepanda 7y ago
        If we weren't collecting personally identifying information with paper ads, no reason to just allow it just because technology lets you.
- robbrown451 7y ago
  Within limits. There is stuff in the Constitution about interstate commerce. For instance, California had to refund me an "emissions fee" after I moved here with a car bought elsewhere that didn't have the same emissions standards. It was found to be unconstitutional. Other climate initiatives are facing similar objections. https://www.mofo.com/resources/insights/the-commerce-clause-implications-of-californias-climate-change-initiatives.html https://www.mofo.com/resources/insights/the-commerce-clause-...
tomc1985 7y ago
When the other 49 stand still and do nothing regarding the business-data-orgy-that-needs-to-end, yes Data should never have been a gold rush and we should be more keen to kill it
- Chris_Chambers 7y ago
  This is only progressive if you retroactively punish the companies that benefited from the lax laws as if they were violating these new laws all along. Otherwise this is just pulling up the ladder for new competitors.
robbrown451 7y ago
Personally I think it is appropriate. California has long been known to do such things, for instance having different requirements for cars regarding emissions. In general I think California is using their huge size and role (obviously, as home to most of the dominant internet companies like Google and Apple and Facebook) to push the rest of the country forward.
- yostrovs 7y ago
  Or backward. Depending on one's view of any particular policy that California does that the other states choose not to.
  - robbrown451 7y ago
    Typically it is forward. That doesn't mean "better", but it does mean that it is moving things in directions that the rest of the country eventually follows. Can you give an example of something California did that was a move backwards? As in, moving back to a way that we did things in the past but the rest of the country has moved on from?
    - incantations 7y ago
      Supporting open-borders and using taxpayer money to bribe illegal colonizers to illegally vote for them, which resulted with getting Trump elected
    - yostrovs 7y ago
      Well, disposing of excrement in the street was a normal part of life in many cities. Now that rules about that are not enforced in California, it's becoming dangerous to simply walk in some parts of it.
      - robbrown451 7y ago
        I think you are confusing individual cities with the state as a whole. This is also far more of an issue with lack of resources rather than a general policy. San Francisco's homeless issue has a lot to do with the fact that tolerance is not equally spread across the nation. If every city was equally tolerant, there wouldn't necessarily be more homeless total, but they'd be more evenly spread out across the nation. As it is, they tend to migrate here from other places. That said, I've lived in SF for nearly 20 years and seen human poop on the sidewalks maybe twice.
moomin 7y ago
They can always run a different website in other states. This is basic exercise of state’s rights.
r00fus 7y ago
This single state contains Silicon Valley and is 14% of the US economy. Jurisdictionally, it could be challenged - but again, a business could just decline to do business with all customers in CA. btw - nothing new here (fta): "Big companies are signing deals with firms that specialize in compliance". Big companies already hire compliance companies for a large number of other regulatory requirements. This is just yet another such requirement - and it's still being hammered out in a public comment period prior to going into law.
- weaksauce 7y ago
  > This single state contains Silicon Valley and is 14% of the US economy california is the sixth largest economy in the world.
  - kaikai 7y ago
    Those two statements aren't mutually exclusive
    - weaksauce 7y ago
      they aren't but it's misleadingly low statistic. I think la county has something like 38% of the economy of the country.
    - lidHanteyk 7y ago
      Yeah, but this is the statement that puts into sharp relief what's going on: This is a trade dispute between two of the Top 10 Economic Powers, more or less, and it can't really be adjudicated in a way that the USA can take advantage of. The USA's primary establishment of data abuse is institutionalized but not written into law, and no legislator would dare do such a thing. California is doing what they have always done in these situations; they are demanding a better quality of life for their citizens, and they know that the USA has no reason to object other than corruption and aristocracy.
- manigandham 7y ago
  That's absolutely meaningless to other states unless majority rule is the way you want to run things.
Gibbon1 7y ago
We can start the conversation with state usury laws.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

It's good that each state should be able to go off and do its own experiment. IMO the state rules which are the most smelly are those over taxes and non-disclosure of financial information.

jasonhansel 7y ago

Yes.

epc 7y ago

It's good that each state can determine the laws applicable in its jurisdiction. If you don't want to comply, don't do business in California.

judge2020 7y ago
Of course the question when you want to block California or run different code for users in California is "how do you legally and reliably tell if a user is in California"; eg. if they're using a VPN to new york could they sue you/file a complaint and win? What if Maxmind's IP database is outdated and you miss a bunch of California users?
- r00fus 7y ago
  Could this be handled with a single checkbox stating that you are either in CA or a CA resident/etc?
  - judge2020 7y ago
    I suppose so, but it's a similar situation as GDPR/cookie consent when you need to perform 0-interaction data collection like running Ads for incognito users or creating a session that might also be used to track you on other websites. Maybe these use cases will just fall out of play as compliance when using them gets harder (which would not be a bad thing).
    - bobthepanda 7y ago
      If we weren't collecting personally identifying information with paper ads, no reason to just allow it just because technology lets you.
robbrown451 7y ago
Within limits. There is stuff in the Constitution about interstate commerce. For instance, California had to refund me an "emissions fee" after I moved here with a car bought elsewhere that didn't have the same emissions standards. It was found to be unconstitutional. Other climate initiatives are facing similar objections. https://www.mofo.com/resources/insights/the-commerce-clause-implications-of-californias-climate-change-initiatives.html https://www.mofo.com/resources/insights/the-commerce-clause-...

tomc1985 7y ago

When the other 49 stand still and do nothing regarding the business-data-orgy-that-needs-to-end, yes Data should never have been a gold rush and we should be more keen to kill it

Chris_Chambers 7y ago
This is only progressive if you retroactively punish the companies that benefited from the lax laws as if they were violating these new laws all along. Otherwise this is just pulling up the ladder for new competitors.

robbrown451 7y ago

Personally I think it is appropriate. California has long been known to do such things, for instance having different requirements for cars regarding emissions. In general I think California is using their huge size and role (obviously, as home to most of the dominant internet companies like Google and Apple and Facebook) to push the rest of the country forward.

yostrovs 7y ago
Or backward. Depending on one's view of any particular policy that California does that the other states choose not to.
- robbrown451 7y ago
  Typically it is forward. That doesn't mean "better", but it does mean that it is moving things in directions that the rest of the country eventually follows. Can you give an example of something California did that was a move backwards? As in, moving back to a way that we did things in the past but the rest of the country has moved on from?
  - incantations 7y ago
    Supporting open-borders and using taxpayer money to bribe illegal colonizers to illegally vote for them, which resulted with getting Trump elected
  - yostrovs 7y ago
    Well, disposing of excrement in the street was a normal part of life in many cities. Now that rules about that are not enforced in California, it's becoming dangerous to simply walk in some parts of it.
    - robbrown451 7y ago
      I think you are confusing individual cities with the state as a whole. This is also far more of an issue with lack of resources rather than a general policy. San Francisco's homeless issue has a lot to do with the fact that tolerance is not equally spread across the nation. If every city was equally tolerant, there wouldn't necessarily be more homeless total, but they'd be more evenly spread out across the nation. As it is, they tend to migrate here from other places. That said, I've lived in SF for nearly 20 years and seen human poop on the sidewalks maybe twice.

moomin 7y ago

They can always run a different website in other states. This is basic exercise of state’s rights.

r00fus 7y ago

This single state contains Silicon Valley and is 14% of the US economy. Jurisdictionally, it could be challenged - but again, a business could just decline to do business with all customers in CA. btw - nothing new here (fta): "Big companies are signing deals with firms that specialize in compliance". Big companies already hire compliance companies for a large number of other regulatory requirements. This is just yet another such requirement - and it's still being hammered out in a public comment period prior to going into law.

weaksauce 7y ago
> This single state contains Silicon Valley and is 14% of the US economy california is the sixth largest economy in the world.
- kaikai 7y ago
  Those two statements aren't mutually exclusive
  - weaksauce 7y ago
    they aren't but it's misleadingly low statistic. I think la county has something like 38% of the economy of the country.
  - lidHanteyk 7y ago
    Yeah, but this is the statement that puts into sharp relief what's going on: This is a trade dispute between two of the Top 10 Economic Powers, more or less, and it can't really be adjudicated in a way that the USA can take advantage of. The USA's primary establishment of data abuse is institutionalized but not written into law, and no legislator would dare do such a thing. California is doing what they have always done in these situations; they are demanding a better quality of life for their citizens, and they know that the USA has no reason to object other than corruption and aristocracy.
manigandham 7y ago
That's absolutely meaningless to other states unless majority rule is the way you want to run things.

Gibbon1 7y ago

We can start the conversation with state usury laws.