3 ms·

The proposal states that this applies to every UAV over half a pound, except amateur built drones (which must be flown within line of sight.)

TrueDuality 7y ago
...and "only at certain specific geographic areas established under this rule"
- mdip 7y ago
  I wish regulations that used this kind of wording were reserved only for the most necessary/dangerous situations. Did they define what the "geographic areas established under this rule" are, or is that something that the FAA has to publish, later? If it's the latter, it has a good chance of never being defined, or being defined in a manner that effectively makes operating a drone impossible/pointless (see my comments re: mini-motorcycles). For instance, my family owns a house in a resort community up north. It's a place where you generally park the car and bike/walk everywhere. A lot of people purchase golf carts or similar vehicles to get around, however, the state does not allow these to be used except in "certain specific geographic areas" -- basically, the municipalities have to decide to allow them or not, and where to allow them. Now, it's arguably a good idea to keep a golf cart with no seat belts that does not accelerate very quickly, cannot exceed 25 MPH and has similar braking limitations from being used on major roads, however, nothing about this vehicle makes it any more unsafe to use in a residential neighborhood or within the 25 MPH speed-limited downtown than other vehicles (self-powered or otherwise). They were legalized in their city last year after several years of trying to get through the city board/mayor. We have no-fly zones and other regulations meant to keep traffic limited to specific needs/aircraft. It would be far better if they (narrowly) defined the areas that drones cannot be used. As a middle-ground, having an additional tier would be nice, i.e. "drone pilots who have completed some form of licensing with basic training" would be allowed to operate them outside of "established geographic areas" but still carry restrictions on where they cannot be used. I'm not a fan of adding a licensing burden, but it's better than a hard restriction with no flexibility. It wouldn't even be unusual for the FAA to put something together for this -- my dad's pilot license allowed him to operate his specific aircraft in VFR when he first received it. He trained up and received his instrument certification and a few others that allowed him to fly in adverse weather conditions, with an oxygen tank/mask, at the maximum altitude the aircraft he owned was capable of reaching and he did just that at least weekly. Even outside of the FAA -- we have graduated drivers licenses[0]. Heck, at 12, my son was able to get a boating license at school[1]. Depending on what these allowed geographical areas end up being, it could either destroy the hobbyist market or make every hobbyist a violator. And once it's in place, holy crap is it difficult to undo[2] [0] My son can get his learners permit at age 14 and (I think) 9 months, allowing him to operate a car on public roads as long as I'm in the passenger seat. [1] Pretty common in Michigan, especially if you live within 10 miles of any of the great lakes. I got mine in 7th grade as part of my science class at a different school/district than he is. [2] Marijuana laws come to mind -- arguably much safer than other, legal/regulated, vices but yet still illegal (at the federal level) in the US. Or maybe more closely related, a future of completely driverless cars -- assuming the technology matures to the point where the "driver" is really a "passenger", will they eliminate drivers licenses? My bet is no. Even if they work as safely/simply/reliably as a modern elevator.
  - CrazyStat 7y ago
    > Did they define what the "geographic areas established under this rule" are, or is that something that the FAA has to publish, later? There's a process defined in the regulations for submitting an area for consideration. It's not clear how easily they'll be granted, we'll have to wait and see.
mdip 7y ago
Honestly, that covers my entire use case, today. I purchased a drone last year with the desire to toss open-source auto-pilot firmware on it, but I've always operated it within line-of-sight... at least, I've always intended to operate it within line-of-sight[0]. :P [0] I failed to properly calibrate the drone on its third flight, where it took of at full power, up and to the left. It continued to try to "correct itself", which resulted it in flying in an arc, landing upside down on the roof of a house 5 doors down. It's not fun introducing yourself to the neighbors by asking if you can use the ladder you carried down the block to retrieve the drone that nearly lodged itself in their chimney. Or maybe it is ... in my case, he was a drone hobbyist with similar piloting skills as myself, so he was very understanding and ended up giving me a battery he had that he found out wasn't compatible with his.
- TaylorAlexander 7y ago
  I’m always surprised how pleasant it is to talk to my neighbors that I normally never speak to.
sunflowerfly 7y ago
Legally, unless you have a waiver, all drones must fly within line of site. K-State Polytechnic applied for and received said waiver for its drone training program.

TrueDuality 7y ago

...and "only at certain specific geographic areas established under this rule"

mdip 7y ago
I wish regulations that used this kind of wording were reserved only for the most necessary/dangerous situations. Did they define what the "geographic areas established under this rule" are, or is that something that the FAA has to publish, later? If it's the latter, it has a good chance of never being defined, or being defined in a manner that effectively makes operating a drone impossible/pointless (see my comments re: mini-motorcycles). For instance, my family owns a house in a resort community up north. It's a place where you generally park the car and bike/walk everywhere. A lot of people purchase golf carts or similar vehicles to get around, however, the state does not allow these to be used except in "certain specific geographic areas" -- basically, the municipalities have to decide to allow them or not, and where to allow them. Now, it's arguably a good idea to keep a golf cart with no seat belts that does not accelerate very quickly, cannot exceed 25 MPH and has similar braking limitations from being used on major roads, however, nothing about this vehicle makes it any more unsafe to use in a residential neighborhood or within the 25 MPH speed-limited downtown than other vehicles (self-powered or otherwise). They were legalized in their city last year after several years of trying to get through the city board/mayor. We have no-fly zones and other regulations meant to keep traffic limited to specific needs/aircraft. It would be far better if they (narrowly) defined the areas that drones cannot be used. As a middle-ground, having an additional tier would be nice, i.e. "drone pilots who have completed some form of licensing with basic training" would be allowed to operate them outside of "established geographic areas" but still carry restrictions on where they cannot be used. I'm not a fan of adding a licensing burden, but it's better than a hard restriction with no flexibility. It wouldn't even be unusual for the FAA to put something together for this -- my dad's pilot license allowed him to operate his specific aircraft in VFR when he first received it. He trained up and received his instrument certification and a few others that allowed him to fly in adverse weather conditions, with an oxygen tank/mask, at the maximum altitude the aircraft he owned was capable of reaching and he did just that at least weekly. Even outside of the FAA -- we have graduated drivers licenses[0]. Heck, at 12, my son was able to get a boating license at school[1]. Depending on what these allowed geographical areas end up being, it could either destroy the hobbyist market or make every hobbyist a violator. And once it's in place, holy crap is it difficult to undo[2] [0] My son can get his learners permit at age 14 and (I think) 9 months, allowing him to operate a car on public roads as long as I'm in the passenger seat. [1] Pretty common in Michigan, especially if you live within 10 miles of any of the great lakes. I got mine in 7th grade as part of my science class at a different school/district than he is. [2] Marijuana laws come to mind -- arguably much safer than other, legal/regulated, vices but yet still illegal (at the federal level) in the US. Or maybe more closely related, a future of completely driverless cars -- assuming the technology matures to the point where the "driver" is really a "passenger", will they eliminate drivers licenses? My bet is no. Even if they work as safely/simply/reliably as a modern elevator.
- CrazyStat 7y ago
  > Did they define what the "geographic areas established under this rule" are, or is that something that the FAA has to publish, later? There's a process defined in the regulations for submitting an area for consideration. It's not clear how easily they'll be granted, we'll have to wait and see.

mdip 7y ago

Honestly, that covers my entire use case, today. I purchased a drone last year with the desire to toss open-source auto-pilot firmware on it, but I've always operated it within line-of-sight... at least, I've always intended to operate it within line-of-sight[0]. :P [0] I failed to properly calibrate the drone on its third flight, where it took of at full power, up and to the left. It continued to try to "correct itself", which resulted it in flying in an arc, landing upside down on the roof of a house 5 doors down. It's not fun introducing yourself to the neighbors by asking if you can use the ladder you carried down the block to retrieve the drone that nearly lodged itself in their chimney. Or maybe it is ... in my case, he was a drone hobbyist with similar piloting skills as myself, so he was very understanding and ended up giving me a battery he had that he found out wasn't compatible with his.

TaylorAlexander 7y ago
I’m always surprised how pleasant it is to talk to my neighbors that I normally never speak to.

sunflowerfly 7y ago

Legally, unless you have a waiver, all drones must fly within line of site. K-State Polytechnic applied for and received said waiver for its drone training program.