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Standard remote identification UAS would be required to broadcast identification and location information directly from the unmanned aircraft and simultaneous

Standard remote identification UAS would be required to broadcast identification and location information directly from the unmanned aircraft and simultaneously transmit that same information to a Remote ID USS through an internet connection. Limited remote identification UAS would be required to transmit information through the internet only, with no broadcast requirements; however, the unmanned aircraft would be designed to operate no more than 400 feet from the control station. This requires all drones to be internet connected. That's a crazy requirement, and a crazy extra risk.

zeta0134 7y ago
Block quote for mobile users. Please use block quotes (>) for quotes, rather than indenting which causes horizonal scrolling on mobile > Standard remote identification UAS would be required to broadcast identification and location information directly from the unmanned aircraft and simultaneously transmit that same information to a Remote ID USS through an internet connection. Limited remote identification UAS would be required to transmit information through the internet only, with no broadcast requirements; however, the unmanned aircraft would be designed to operate no more than 400 feet from the control station.
- TrueDuality 7y ago
  My bad I tried that at first but it didn't seem to work. I'll use them in the future.
  - kbenson 7y ago
    Angle brackets don't actually create block quotes here, but if you just put one in front of the long wrapping text people will get the idea. The indent formatting works best for code, as it doesn't wrap and preserves newlines, but on mobile it will cause scrollbars within the comment for the same reason, making it very hard to read. It feels weird to use a single angle bracket for it all because we're conditioned by mail clients to do one per line, but that just doesn't work well here. Alternatively, italicizing quoted text with asterisks around the block usually works, since the core of what you usually want is just to visually distinguish something you are repeating for context and your own comments on it.
    - mikeyouse 7y ago
      > Alternatively, italicizing quoted text with asterisks around the block usually works, since the core of what you usually want is just to visually distinguish something you are repeating for context and your own comments on it. Yep, I've found that combining the two works well. Start with an angle bracket, then use the asterisks to italicize and it's readable on mobile/PC and it's clear that you're quoting someone and it's clear what the quoted content is.
      - smacktoward 7y ago
        Even so, it’s silly that people have to invent their own formatting to represent blockquotes when HTML has an element already built into it specifically for that purpose.
      - skyyler 7y ago
        " Start with an angle bracket, then use the asterisks to italicize and it's readable on mobile/PC and it's clear that you're quoting someone and it's clear what the quoted content is. " What's wrong with quotation marks?
        HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
        "" Start with an angle bracket, then use the asterisks to italicize and it's readable on mobile/PC and it's clear that you're quoting someone and it's clear what the quoted content is. "" "What's wrong with quotation marks?" They get messy, quick.
        yellowapple 7y ago
        ----- BEGIN QUOTATION ----- They get messy quick. ----- END QUOTATION ----- How about this?
        macintux 7y ago
        That doesn't solve the problem of quoting multiple levels of the thread. >> This is a time-honored way of identifying a grandparent comment.
- irq 7y ago
  dang, if you are reading this, can you let us know if there are any plans to fix this long standing mobile UX problem?
  - punnerud 7y ago
    Horizontal scrolling is great some times, ex. when you don’t want the text to be broken on mobile. I like when quotes are italicized by using quotes. Guide: https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc
    - microcolonel 7y ago
      > I like when quotes are italicized by using quotes. I tend to do both the standard email syntax (>) and italics, but it breaks down when you want to preserve italics from the original text.
cesarb 7y ago
From what I understood skimming the full PDF linked by another comment, it's the base station which is required to be Internet connected, not the drone. Still a crazy requirement, but less crazy.
- TrueDuality 7y ago
  That is the opposite of my understanding based on two parts. As part of the protocol the UAS needs to be able to transmit: > An indication of the emergency status of the UAS, which could include lost-link or downed aircraft. I suppose this could possibly be done from the base station as well but manufacturers are going to have to get this certified for operation and I bet this will be sticking point. The other one is this one: > UAS would be required to broadcast identification and location information directly from the unmanned aircraft and simultaneously transmit that same information to a Remote ID USS through an internet connection. While I suppose it could be read that the "directly from unmanned aircraft" might not apply to the internet connection portion I'm willing to bet that is the intent.
  - CrazyStat 7y ago
    p.111 of the regulations gives an example specifically of a UAS that uses the internet connection of a paired smartphone: > Charlie’s UAS is designed to pair with his smartphone to transmit the remote identification message elements through an internet connection to a USS. Because Charlie’s UAS cannot broadcast [i.e. radio] remote identification message elements, it does not function unless his smartphone is connected to the internet and transmitting through that internet connection to Bravo USS.
    - TrueDuality 7y ago
      That doesn't seem remotely practical. Even the tiniest hobby drones can easily and safely get 150ft away along the ground and are allowed to go up to 400ft. Have you tried connecting to a phone's hotspot or bluetooth line of sight from 50ft away? 75ft? That's like half a second of flight time for drone then it's supposed to just "stop operating". Sounds incredibly dangerous and ineffective to me. If its from the base station that would probably make more sense but that would require replacing controllers which are the most costly portion of amateur setups (besides FPV setups).
comex 7y ago
No it doesn’t. “Standard remote identification” drones would be required to have a base station that’s capable of connecting to the internet, but the drone could still operate where there’s no service: > If the internet is available at takeoff, the UAS would have to do the following from takeoff to landing: (1) connect to the internet and transmit the required remote identification message elements through that internet connection to a Remote ID USS; and (2) broadcast the message elements directly from the unmanned aircraft. > If the internet is unavailable at takeoff, or if during the flight, the unmanned aircraft can no longer transmit through an internet connection to a Remote ID USS, the UAS would have to broadcast the message elements directly from the unmanned aircraft from takeoff to landing. However, for “limited remote identification” drones, which lack the hardware to broadcast directly and thus broadcast only via the internet, the base station would be required to have an internet connection [edit: and also be within 400 ft of the drone].
- jjoonathan 7y ago
  Yes, it does. It requires that the drone be internet connected or, with almost exactly the same risk/hassle profile, that the base station within 400ft of the drone be internet connected. That's a crazy requirement, and a crazy extra risk.
  - comex 7y ago
    There has to be a base station somewhere, unless the drone is fully autonomous and not even indirectly controlled by anyone, which appears to be in violation of other regulations anyway. If the drone is capable of broadcasting directly (“standard remote identification”), then that base station doesn’t have to be within 400ft; it must have the capability to connect to the internet, but the drone can operate even if it’s out of service. That could add some cost. However, AFAIK (not an expert), the most popular drones are already designed to be connected to a phone – either directly (for short-range amateur models) or with a controller that you attach your phone to. Those devices could presumably use the phone‘s internet connection, so there would be no added cost, although I guess the phone would go from optional to mandatory(?). I don’t know what you mean by “risk”. Risk of the base station being hacked over the internet? It’s a possibility, but it doesn’t seem like the end of the world, especially since the base station would only need to make outbound connections to specific servers.
avgeek23 7y ago
So basically ads-b for drones.

zeta0134 7y ago

Block quote for mobile users. Please use block quotes (>) for quotes, rather than indenting which causes horizonal scrolling on mobile > Standard remote identification UAS would be required to broadcast identification and location information directly from the unmanned aircraft and simultaneously transmit that same information to a Remote ID USS through an internet connection. Limited remote identification UAS would be required to transmit information through the internet only, with no broadcast requirements; however, the unmanned aircraft would be designed to operate no more than 400 feet from the control station.

TrueDuality 7y ago
My bad I tried that at first but it didn't seem to work. I'll use them in the future.
- kbenson 7y ago
  Angle brackets don't actually create block quotes here, but if you just put one in front of the long wrapping text people will get the idea. The indent formatting works best for code, as it doesn't wrap and preserves newlines, but on mobile it will cause scrollbars within the comment for the same reason, making it very hard to read. It feels weird to use a single angle bracket for it all because we're conditioned by mail clients to do one per line, but that just doesn't work well here. Alternatively, italicizing quoted text with asterisks around the block usually works, since the core of what you usually want is just to visually distinguish something you are repeating for context and your own comments on it.
  - mikeyouse 7y ago
    > Alternatively, italicizing quoted text with asterisks around the block usually works, since the core of what you usually want is just to visually distinguish something you are repeating for context and your own comments on it. Yep, I've found that combining the two works well. Start with an angle bracket, then use the asterisks to italicize and it's readable on mobile/PC and it's clear that you're quoting someone and it's clear what the quoted content is.
    - smacktoward 7y ago
      Even so, it’s silly that people have to invent their own formatting to represent blockquotes when HTML has an element already built into it specifically for that purpose.
    - skyyler 7y ago
      " Start with an angle bracket, then use the asterisks to italicize and it's readable on mobile/PC and it's clear that you're quoting someone and it's clear what the quoted content is. " What's wrong with quotation marks?
      - HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
        "" Start with an angle bracket, then use the asterisks to italicize and it's readable on mobile/PC and it's clear that you're quoting someone and it's clear what the quoted content is. "" "What's wrong with quotation marks?" They get messy, quick.
        yellowapple 7y ago
        ----- BEGIN QUOTATION ----- They get messy quick. ----- END QUOTATION ----- How about this?
        macintux 7y ago
        That doesn't solve the problem of quoting multiple levels of the thread. >> This is a time-honored way of identifying a grandparent comment.
irq 7y ago
dang, if you are reading this, can you let us know if there are any plans to fix this long standing mobile UX problem?
- punnerud 7y ago
  Horizontal scrolling is great some times, ex. when you don’t want the text to be broken on mobile. I like when quotes are italicized by using quotes. Guide: https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc
  - microcolonel 7y ago
    > I like when quotes are italicized by using quotes. I tend to do both the standard email syntax (>) and italics, but it breaks down when you want to preserve italics from the original text.

cesarb 7y ago

From what I understood skimming the full PDF linked by another comment, it's the base station which is required to be Internet connected, not the drone. Still a crazy requirement, but less crazy.

TrueDuality 7y ago
That is the opposite of my understanding based on two parts. As part of the protocol the UAS needs to be able to transmit: > An indication of the emergency status of the UAS, which could include lost-link or downed aircraft. I suppose this could possibly be done from the base station as well but manufacturers are going to have to get this certified for operation and I bet this will be sticking point. The other one is this one: > UAS would be required to broadcast identification and location information directly from the unmanned aircraft and simultaneously transmit that same information to a Remote ID USS through an internet connection. While I suppose it could be read that the "directly from unmanned aircraft" might not apply to the internet connection portion I'm willing to bet that is the intent.
- CrazyStat 7y ago
  p.111 of the regulations gives an example specifically of a UAS that uses the internet connection of a paired smartphone: > Charlie’s UAS is designed to pair with his smartphone to transmit the remote identification message elements through an internet connection to a USS. Because Charlie’s UAS cannot broadcast [i.e. radio] remote identification message elements, it does not function unless his smartphone is connected to the internet and transmitting through that internet connection to Bravo USS.
  - TrueDuality 7y ago
    That doesn't seem remotely practical. Even the tiniest hobby drones can easily and safely get 150ft away along the ground and are allowed to go up to 400ft. Have you tried connecting to a phone's hotspot or bluetooth line of sight from 50ft away? 75ft? That's like half a second of flight time for drone then it's supposed to just "stop operating". Sounds incredibly dangerous and ineffective to me. If its from the base station that would probably make more sense but that would require replacing controllers which are the most costly portion of amateur setups (besides FPV setups).

comex 7y ago

No it doesn’t. “Standard remote identification” drones would be required to have a base station that’s capable of connecting to the internet, but the drone could still operate where there’s no service: > If the internet is available at takeoff, the UAS would have to do the following from takeoff to landing: (1) connect to the internet and transmit the required remote identification message elements through that internet connection to a Remote ID USS; and (2) broadcast the message elements directly from the unmanned aircraft. > If the internet is unavailable at takeoff, or if during the flight, the unmanned aircraft can no longer transmit through an internet connection to a Remote ID USS, the UAS would have to broadcast the message elements directly from the unmanned aircraft from takeoff to landing. However, for “limited remote identification” drones, which lack the hardware to broadcast directly and thus broadcast only via the internet, the base station would be required to have an internet connection [edit: and also be within 400 ft of the drone].

jjoonathan 7y ago
Yes, it does. It requires that the drone be internet connected or, with almost exactly the same risk/hassle profile, that the base station within 400ft of the drone be internet connected. That's a crazy requirement, and a crazy extra risk.
- comex 7y ago
  There has to be a base station somewhere, unless the drone is fully autonomous and not even indirectly controlled by anyone, which appears to be in violation of other regulations anyway. If the drone is capable of broadcasting directly (“standard remote identification”), then that base station doesn’t have to be within 400ft; it must have the capability to connect to the internet, but the drone can operate even if it’s out of service. That could add some cost. However, AFAIK (not an expert), the most popular drones are already designed to be connected to a phone – either directly (for short-range amateur models) or with a controller that you attach your phone to. Those devices could presumably use the phone‘s internet connection, so there would be no added cost, although I guess the phone would go from optional to mandatory(?). I don’t know what you mean by “risk”. Risk of the base station being hacked over the internet? It’s a possibility, but it doesn’t seem like the end of the world, especially since the base station would only need to make outbound connections to specific servers.

avgeek23 7y ago

So basically ads-b for drones.