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Frankly, I don't see the point of electric bicycles. I have not seen any electric bicycle that offered any real advantage to a normal muscle-operated one. As a

Frankly, I don't see the point of electric bicycles. I have not seen any electric bicycle that offered any real advantage to a normal muscle-operated one. As a matter of fact, bicycles are one of the oldest and most refined technologies available to us. They are marvelously efficient, they are light and versatile. Adding an electric motor and battery makes them heavy, limits your range and decreases the amount of control you have over the bike. Which is nice for, say, elderly people. And maybe you are American and you don't know this, but many European countries have excellent biking routes everywhere and cars actually brake for cyclists. All that talk about cycling being dangerous is mainly an American problem. In most other countries, bikes are actually a lot safer than cars for the simple reason that they don't go as fast. I think bicycles are plain fun. I ride my bicycle to work whenever I can. I love my bicycles. All three of them!

paganel 16y ago
> I think bicycles are plain fun. I ride my bicycle to work whenever I can. I would do the same, if only we'd have a decent shower at our workplace, so that I won't smell all day after a bike-ride from home. Nevertheless, I can't wait for this winter to be finally over so that I can take my bike for photo-taking rides outside the city I live in. (if it matters, I'm a fellow (East-)European whose city doesn't have that many bike-lines, but it doesn't matter anyway, cause I've first ridden a bike on a national road at age 12, so nothing scares me :) ).
tzs 16y ago
> I have not seen any electric bicycle that offered any real advantage to a normal muscle-operated one. Some people don't have showering facilities at work, or do not want to carry a change of clothes with them. An electric bike is less likely to produce a stinky cyclist.
- Derbasti 16y ago
  Most electric bicycles only enhance your own pedaling. This makes you faster, but it won't make you sweat less as you can still exert the same force (only to greater effect). In other words, if sweating is the problem, ride slower. Personally, I ride slowly to work, and fast back.
  - tzs 16y ago
    You do not peddle the bike that the article was discussing.
    - rue 16y ago
      He's wrong about how pedelecs work. If you don't pedal, however, it's not a bike, it's a motorcycle.
  - po 16y ago
    This makes no sense. I've seen women in skirts blasting up a hill by my house with a kid in a bike seat that would leave me huffing and puffing at any speed. They don't even have to get off the seat. The enhanced pedaling makes you stronger not just faster. That means less sweating.
    - Derbasti 16y ago
      In that case it is more of a motorcycle anyway. Where is the point in cycling if you don't have to use your own muscles to ride?
      - po 16y ago
        More like a moped actually. :-) Where is the point in cycling if you don't have to use your own muscles to ride? Because sometimes you have the energy and sometimes you don't. Sometimes you're ok with sweating and sometimes you aren't. Some days are 100F degrees and some are 60F. Maybe you're not strong enough to maintain your speed up a hill by your house but you're ok for the rest of the trip. It might lower that one part of the trip from "too hard" to "doable" and it's one more person getting more exercise and driving less. It's good if everyone bikes more but the whole point of a commuter bike is that the exercise part is secondary. First is getting from point A to point B daily and conveniently.
        jmm 16y ago
        Exactly. I got in a little argument with my sister the other day about how obnoxious the modified bikes were that cruise around her neighborhood in San Juan, Puerto Rico. People attach little two-stroke engines (or whatever) that are loud and polluting. My argument was basically, just f'ing pedal. But she made the point that in the tropics, sometimes you want to avoid the sweating that comes from just a few pedals down a sunny street, and, second, not everyone can afford a scooter or moped (or ac'ed car!). Puerto Rico just announced proposed penalties for these modded bikes, which seem a bit harsh: http://www.elnuevodia.com/noticia_noticias_politica-879951.html http://www.elnuevodia.com/noticia_noticias_politica-879951.h...
- jdietrich 16y ago
  This is absolutely the number one error people from non-bicycling nations make about utility cycling. Don't want to get sweaty? Just use your gears and slow down. You don't run to the corner store, you walk. Likewise with cycling to work - it's easy to travel at a comfortable pace that won't leave you sweaty or out of breath.
  - Derbasti 16y ago
    Perfectly put. That is what I was trying to say ;-)
pmccool 16y ago
I see electric bicycles as a tool to help people build a bit of exercise into their daily commute. I'm all for that. I'm a bit leery of devices like this, which help people build no exercise at all into their daily commute.
othello 16y ago
As a matter of fact, bicycles are one of the oldest and most refined technologies available to us. Bicycles can hardly be considered an old technology. While Da Vinci had already sketched some designs in the late 15th century [1], the first prototypes could not be built before the early 19th century. The first recognizable version of the current chain-driven models was only produced in 1885. [2] The chain-driven bicycle is not as simple as it looks. [1] http://www.ltolman.org/davinci.htm http://www.ltolman.org/davinci.htm [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycles
- Derbasti 16y ago
  Show me another widespread technology that exists since the late 1800s and that has not been completely replaced by another technology. Most technologies get replaced by newer 'disruptive' technologies in rather short times (think gasoline vs. steam vs. electricity for trains or turbine vs. gasoline for planes). The 'driving force' for bicycles has stayed virtually the same (human muscles), but the transmissions and layouts have been improved steadily. Only the advent of hybrid electric-and-muscle driven e-bikes can be seen as an actual revolution in cycling technology.
  - simonsarris 16y ago
    > Show me another widespread technology that exists since the late 1800s and that has not been completely replaced by another technology. There have got to be hundreds. Traffic lights and air brakes, 1868 Four-stroke internal combustion engine, 1876 toilet paper, 1880 Rayon, 1884 Steam turbine, 1884 Gas-powered automobile and motorcycle, 1885 dish-washer, Coca-cola (is that an invention?), 1886 radar, contact lenses, 1887 AC motor/transformer, 1888 cordite, 1889 escalator, 1891 zipper, 1893
    - adolph 16y ago
      What did people use before 1880?
      - 16y ago
jwr 16y ago
Agreed. I would much rather have a normal, folding bike. However, I have to admit that these guys got the folding part right. I think folding bike design hasn't really progressed much over the years. People rave about Brompton bikes, but I am not impressed by how they fold, what they fold into, or their weight. And while I would not pay the exorbitant price for this thing, I would gladly pay a significant amount of money for a modern folding bike. Say, with a carbon fiber frame instead of a steel one.
kristiandupont 16y ago
Most electric bikes might not offer much advantage but this one is obviously very compact compared to a normal bike. That is a major advantage to some people.
rue 16y ago
Actually, pedelecs are getting rather common right here in the EU. In addition to still requiring pedaling oneself, I think most countries restrict the power output somehow; here it's max 250W and turns off at 25km/h. And sure, you probably shouldn't embark on a 100km ride but the batteries are certainly sufficient to last a daily commute, <50km, and are only going to get better. One thing I, as a racing-type cyclist, suffered from was the feeling that it was somehow “unfair” that people would have assistance cycling, but it's really an entirely different beast: there's cycling, and then there's transportation by means of a bicycle. By all means love your bicycles – I like mine very much – but pedelecs don't really detract anything from you. A pedelec won't make people lazier, it enables them to use their bike loaded heavier, in worse conditions[1] and with less effort which is important if they aren't terribly fit or don't want to sweat on their way to work. This translates to more people riding. I'd argue that there's enough exercise involved to actually get direct health gains, but even assuming there's not, we still get the benefit of fewer cars on the roads and a better environment for cycling when drivers and politicians are forced to really pay attention to it (it may shock you to know that in many places in the EU, while certainly better than most of the US, cycling life still is a bit dangerous and inconvenient). [1] The weather in the winter here is such that bike commutes take 50-200% more time than in the summer even when you work twice as hard. I know a few people who run an electric in the winter: the result is that they get to ride at an effort level comparable to that in the summer.
- Derbasti 16y ago
  I completely agree! And I didn't want to say that pedelecs are a bad thing. My grandfather owns one and it enables him to go cycling with his children and grandchildren. That is awesome!

paganel 16y ago

> I think bicycles are plain fun. I ride my bicycle to work whenever I can. I would do the same, if only we'd have a decent shower at our workplace, so that I won't smell all day after a bike-ride from home. Nevertheless, I can't wait for this winter to be finally over so that I can take my bike for photo-taking rides outside the city I live in. (if it matters, I'm a fellow (East-)European whose city doesn't have that many bike-lines, but it doesn't matter anyway, cause I've first ridden a bike on a national road at age 12, so nothing scares me :) ).

tzs 16y ago

> I have not seen any electric bicycle that offered any real advantage to a normal muscle-operated one. Some people don't have showering facilities at work, or do not want to carry a change of clothes with them. An electric bike is less likely to produce a stinky cyclist.

Derbasti 16y ago
Most electric bicycles only enhance your own pedaling. This makes you faster, but it won't make you sweat less as you can still exert the same force (only to greater effect). In other words, if sweating is the problem, ride slower. Personally, I ride slowly to work, and fast back.
- tzs 16y ago
  You do not peddle the bike that the article was discussing.
  - rue 16y ago
    He's wrong about how pedelecs work. If you don't pedal, however, it's not a bike, it's a motorcycle.
- po 16y ago
  This makes no sense. I've seen women in skirts blasting up a hill by my house with a kid in a bike seat that would leave me huffing and puffing at any speed. They don't even have to get off the seat. The enhanced pedaling makes you stronger not just faster. That means less sweating.
  - Derbasti 16y ago
    In that case it is more of a motorcycle anyway. Where is the point in cycling if you don't have to use your own muscles to ride?
    - po 16y ago
      More like a moped actually. :-) Where is the point in cycling if you don't have to use your own muscles to ride? Because sometimes you have the energy and sometimes you don't. Sometimes you're ok with sweating and sometimes you aren't. Some days are 100F degrees and some are 60F. Maybe you're not strong enough to maintain your speed up a hill by your house but you're ok for the rest of the trip. It might lower that one part of the trip from "too hard" to "doable" and it's one more person getting more exercise and driving less. It's good if everyone bikes more but the whole point of a commuter bike is that the exercise part is secondary. First is getting from point A to point B daily and conveniently.
      - jmm 16y ago
        Exactly. I got in a little argument with my sister the other day about how obnoxious the modified bikes were that cruise around her neighborhood in San Juan, Puerto Rico. People attach little two-stroke engines (or whatever) that are loud and polluting. My argument was basically, just f'ing pedal. But she made the point that in the tropics, sometimes you want to avoid the sweating that comes from just a few pedals down a sunny street, and, second, not everyone can afford a scooter or moped (or ac'ed car!). Puerto Rico just announced proposed penalties for these modded bikes, which seem a bit harsh: http://www.elnuevodia.com/noticia_noticias_politica-879951.html http://www.elnuevodia.com/noticia_noticias_politica-879951.h...
jdietrich 16y ago
This is absolutely the number one error people from non-bicycling nations make about utility cycling. Don't want to get sweaty? Just use your gears and slow down. You don't run to the corner store, you walk. Likewise with cycling to work - it's easy to travel at a comfortable pace that won't leave you sweaty or out of breath.
- Derbasti 16y ago
  Perfectly put. That is what I was trying to say ;-)

pmccool 16y ago

I see electric bicycles as a tool to help people build a bit of exercise into their daily commute. I'm all for that. I'm a bit leery of devices like this, which help people build no exercise at all into their daily commute.

othello 16y ago

As a matter of fact, bicycles are one of the oldest and most refined technologies available to us. Bicycles can hardly be considered an old technology. While Da Vinci had already sketched some designs in the late 15th century [1], the first prototypes could not be built before the early 19th century. The first recognizable version of the current chain-driven models was only produced in 1885. [2] The chain-driven bicycle is not as simple as it looks. [1] http://www.ltolman.org/davinci.htm http://www.ltolman.org/davinci.htm [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycles

Derbasti 16y ago
Show me another widespread technology that exists since the late 1800s and that has not been completely replaced by another technology. Most technologies get replaced by newer 'disruptive' technologies in rather short times (think gasoline vs. steam vs. electricity for trains or turbine vs. gasoline for planes). The 'driving force' for bicycles has stayed virtually the same (human muscles), but the transmissions and layouts have been improved steadily. Only the advent of hybrid electric-and-muscle driven e-bikes can be seen as an actual revolution in cycling technology.
- simonsarris 16y ago
  > Show me another widespread technology that exists since the late 1800s and that has not been completely replaced by another technology. There have got to be hundreds. Traffic lights and air brakes, 1868 Four-stroke internal combustion engine, 1876 toilet paper, 1880 Rayon, 1884 Steam turbine, 1884 Gas-powered automobile and motorcycle, 1885 dish-washer, Coca-cola (is that an invention?), 1886 radar, contact lenses, 1887 AC motor/transformer, 1888 cordite, 1889 escalator, 1891 zipper, 1893
  - adolph 16y ago
    What did people use before 1880?
    - 16y ago

jwr 16y ago

Agreed. I would much rather have a normal, folding bike. However, I have to admit that these guys got the folding part right. I think folding bike design hasn't really progressed much over the years. People rave about Brompton bikes, but I am not impressed by how they fold, what they fold into, or their weight. And while I would not pay the exorbitant price for this thing, I would gladly pay a significant amount of money for a modern folding bike. Say, with a carbon fiber frame instead of a steel one.

kristiandupont 16y ago

Most electric bikes might not offer much advantage but this one is obviously very compact compared to a normal bike. That is a major advantage to some people.

rue 16y ago

Actually, pedelecs are getting rather common right here in the EU. In addition to still requiring pedaling oneself, I think most countries restrict the power output somehow; here it's max 250W and turns off at 25km/h. And sure, you probably shouldn't embark on a 100km ride but the batteries are certainly sufficient to last a daily commute, <50km, and are only going to get better. One thing I, as a racing-type cyclist, suffered from was the feeling that it was somehow “unfair” that people would have assistance cycling, but it's really an entirely different beast: there's cycling, and then there's transportation by means of a bicycle. By all means love your bicycles – I like mine very much – but pedelecs don't really detract anything from you. A pedelec won't make people lazier, it enables them to use their bike loaded heavier, in worse conditions[1] and with less effort which is important if they aren't terribly fit or don't want to sweat on their way to work. This translates to more people riding. I'd argue that there's enough exercise involved to actually get direct health gains, but even assuming there's not, we still get the benefit of fewer cars on the roads and a better environment for cycling when drivers and politicians are forced to really pay attention to it (it may shock you to know that in many places in the EU, while certainly better than most of the US, cycling life still is a bit dangerous and inconvenient). [1] The weather in the winter here is such that bike commutes take 50-200% more time than in the summer even when you work twice as hard. I know a few people who run an electric in the winter: the result is that they get to ride at an effort level comparable to that in the summer.

Derbasti 16y ago
I completely agree! And I didn't want to say that pedelecs are a bad thing. My grandfather owns one and it enables him to go cycling with his children and grandchildren. That is awesome!