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The reporting on this is very weak. I'm not a genius, but my guess is that cruise ships contribute a tiny proportion to the pollutants people are exposed to on
by brenden2 7y ago
The reporting on this is very weak. I'm not a genius, but my guess is that cruise ships contribute a tiny proportion to the pollutants people are exposed to on a day to day basis in NYC. Most of the pollution is from automobiles.
The article mentions (and can be entirely summarized by):
> Idling ships release potent diesel air pollution — similar to diesel exhaust from automobiles but in much larger quantities, and laced with harmful metals — that is linked to cancer, asthma, heart disease and other serious health problems.
The author states "in much bigger quantities", which is probably true when you compare a ship to an automobile. However there are no details on the relative quantities involved when you compare all polluters combined. I'm guessing the article would be much less dramatic if you did.
- ganzuul 7y ago'Bunker fuel' is the big difference here.
- gambiting 7y agoI'm not an expert on the topic, but I'm pretty sure ships cannot burn bunker fuel unless in international waters. They have to switch to diesel when this close to the shore.
- mc32 7y agoAccording to the article one cruise ship idling emits as much pollution as several myriad semi trucks idling. That seems significant to me and moreover easy to abate.
- greglindahl 7y agoAlso note that semi trucks aren't allowed to idle in NYC.
- tawm 7y agoAbsolutely, they keyword here is ECA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emission_Control_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emission_Control_Area That being said, the calculation that a cruise ship generating its own power emits as much SO2 as 34400 idling trucks seems to hold up.
- endorphone 7y agoCars have been regulated to the point where they have an incredible array of pollution control mechanisms since the smog crisis of the 80s. No, most of the pollution isn't from cars. Cruise ships, in contrast, have very little regulation, burn the worst of the worst types of fuel, and have effectively no pollution control. A single cruise ship is estimated to produce more pollution than one million cars. In Europe, cruise ships emit 10x more pollution on the coastlines than the EU's entire 260 million cars. Etc.
- chiefalchemist 7y agoAdd in the ships carrying containers (of goods) and the amount of pollution is massive. It's ironic that we we're able to cooperate to make the global market work, but we can't address the unintended consequences of all that transporting.
- Ericson2314 7y agoYeah very suspicious, isn't it.
- Ericson2314 7y agoI.e. if you can't enforce some environmental tax elsewhere, you can still tariff the difference. Other countries will then be incentivized to make the same tax so they get the revenue instead of you. Race to the top! What's the problem?!
- bwb 7y agoThe EU is about to roll some out and the new fuel standards might help for anyone docking in the EU... But ya, we need to do more.
- tjoff 7y agoYet it won't have any effect on international waters. Indeed more needs to be done.
- sesuximo 7y agoeven if it's not the biggest improvement, it's a big and an easy one that can be done in parallel with others.
- totalZero 7y agoCruise ships totally outclass cars as a source of pollutants. An example from across the pond: "The results show that the luxury cruise brands owned by Carnival Corporation & PLC emitted in 2017 in European seas alone 10 times more disease-causing sulphur dioxide than all of Europe’s 260+ million passenger vehicles." https://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/one-corporation-pollute-them-all https://www.transportenvironment.org/publications/one-corpor...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- brenden2 7y agoInteresting, thanks for sharing. Still, my point was that automobiles exist alongside people within cities, in near proximity. A diesel truck driving down my street is probably going to expose me to more harmful pollution than a cruise ship passing by 10 miles from me. So I guess to make my point another way: if you could trace the damage done to individuals in cities, I think the bigger fish to fry would be automobiles. Just to be clear, I'm not trying to discount any claims that cruise ships are causing unnecessary outsized pollution. Airplanes also cause a significant amount of pollution, but for some reason society generally accepts air travel because it's fashionable.
- greglindahl 7y agoCan you do better than guessing? Hint: Automobiles and trucks have had steadily tightened regulations for a long time. Ships burn much worse fuel than cars and trucks, and have only recently been regulated. And they aren't regulated in NYC. > “The oil that ships use has a lot more heavy metals in it that have a negative impact on human health,” said Adam Freed, who was the deputy director of the Office of Long-Term Planning and Sustainability in the Bloomberg administration. “We understood how important of an impact it could have.”
- brenden2 7y agoOlder diesel trucks are largely exempt from these regulations. There are a few loopholes that allow people to purchase older truck parts, refurbish them, and continue to operate them without needing to adhere to modern emissions requirements.