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Marketing usually costs money. If you’re trying to bootstrap, you probably should wait until your product is finished? There are very few free avenues for sel

Marketing usually costs money. If you’re trying to bootstrap, you probably should wait until your product is finished? There are very few free avenues for self promotion on the Internet for “code”, other than a blog.

tomhoward 7y ago
It doesn't need to if you're doing something highly valuable for a specific subset of potential customers. I don't know what it says in the book, but I'd expect the message would be similar to the YC advice, which is to start talking very early and frequently to potential and existing customers, to ensure that what you’re building is highly valuable to them. YC partners have often said that the companies that achieve the biggest success are the ones who are the most active in talking to existing/potential customers. They also note that the ones who spend money on paid marketing before they have a highly valuable product and organic (i.e., free) growth are the ones who fail.
- melling 7y ago
  Talking to potential is customers is more about making sure you’re solving someone’s real problem, as opposed to “build it and they will come”. That should probably fall under a different category than marketing. We’re overloading the term, which could lead to confusion. Your “advice” would fall under the “getting your first 1000 users” trope: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajayyadav/2017/05/16/how-to-get-your-first-1000-customers-at-your-startup/#716cb8d73b44 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajayyadav/2017/05/16/how-to-get...
  - tomhoward 7y ago
    > "making sure you’re solving someone’s real problem" When I studied a couple of university marketing subjects in the mid-90s, we were taught that's about the most fundamental aspect of marketing. > “We’re overloading the term” I think it's more likely you're reacting to a stereotype of marketing held by people outside the field, rather than what it really is according to those who do it properly. From the author's own summary of the book: So basically: start marketing the day you start coding. Or, actually... before you even start coding! Validate your idea, build a prototype, show it to people, gather feedback, improve it and keep going.
    - melling 7y ago
      Sure, this is a 10+ year old idea about finding 1000 true fans. https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/ https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/ There’s no value in repackaging the idea into “start marketing the day you code”. It’s confusing the real intent with an ambiguous and broad term.
    - tmartty 7y ago
      That's not a quote from the author of the book, that's something I wrote, just to be clear.
  - kristianc 7y ago
    > That should probably fall under a different category than marketing. I work in product marketing for a large SaaS and would absolutely consider talking to customers (potential and actual), and talking to people who talk to customers (such as sales, CS) as part of my job. It would be incredibly hard to do my job without it. The answers to most questions in marketing come from outside the building. We’re not overloading the term - you appear to be narrowly defining the term as advertising and branding.
    - melling 7y ago
      Market research isn’t its own category? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_research
      - kristianc 7y ago
        Although you might hire specialist market research firms, market research definitely falls under the remit of the modern marketer’s job. Market research firms will also regularly supply insights and opinions about positioning, which definitely falls under marketing. Competitive differentiation is so fundamental to positioning that it doesn’t really make sense to treat them as siloed functions.
  - NewsAware 7y ago
    The term is "product validation" which isn't core marketing of course. But for that you need initial users and to get these you need limited marketing efforts early on. No rocket science :-)
TruffleLabs 7y ago
Don’t wait! From the moment you decide to pursue the idea, you have to do marketing, advertising, and public relations. Yes, there is a cost. That’s the reality.
- tmartty 7y ago
  And it's usually a hard investment to do since what it most requires is time. And time is extremely valuable when you're first pursuing an idea and starting a project.
- o-__-o 7y ago
  I would not advertise until you have 1000 cold calls under your belt and a product. You will waste money advertising an alpha product. Your 20/80 customers won’t come from an ad. Press releases are your friend, Ive lost track of how many companies I’ve found with potential by simply watching the news wire the comes through my investment account website/app
o-__-o 7y ago
Doesn’t cost anything to make PowerPoint pitch decks. Doesn’t cost anything to write use-case documents. Doesn’t cost anything to throw a lead generation page up on GitHub. Costs a few bucks to get a domain name. Doesn’t cost anything to cold call 10 businesses every morning before you start coding. I think this is a stepping stone entrepreneurs learn only after a few failures. My last startup went from 0-90k in 5 months with simple marketing. Having premade material to give out means the difference between a follow up to a cold call and never following up with them again.. I’ve had both happen, so I always spend an hour or two selling, then marketing before doing any kind of coding or other deeply technical work

tomhoward 7y ago

It doesn't need to if you're doing something highly valuable for a specific subset of potential customers. I don't know what it says in the book, but I'd expect the message would be similar to the YC advice, which is to start talking very early and frequently to potential and existing customers, to ensure that what you’re building is highly valuable to them. YC partners have often said that the companies that achieve the biggest success are the ones who are the most active in talking to existing/potential customers. They also note that the ones who spend money on paid marketing before they have a highly valuable product and organic (i.e., free) growth are the ones who fail.

melling 7y ago
Talking to potential is customers is more about making sure you’re solving someone’s real problem, as opposed to “build it and they will come”. That should probably fall under a different category than marketing. We’re overloading the term, which could lead to confusion. Your “advice” would fall under the “getting your first 1000 users” trope: https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajayyadav/2017/05/16/how-to-get-your-first-1000-customers-at-your-startup/#716cb8d73b44 https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajayyadav/2017/05/16/how-to-get...
- tomhoward 7y ago
  > "making sure you’re solving someone’s real problem" When I studied a couple of university marketing subjects in the mid-90s, we were taught that's about the most fundamental aspect of marketing. > “We’re overloading the term” I think it's more likely you're reacting to a stereotype of marketing held by people outside the field, rather than what it really is according to those who do it properly. From the author's own summary of the book: So basically: start marketing the day you start coding. Or, actually... before you even start coding! Validate your idea, build a prototype, show it to people, gather feedback, improve it and keep going.
  - melling 7y ago
    Sure, this is a 10+ year old idea about finding 1000 true fans. https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/ https://kk.org/thetechnium/1000-true-fans/ There’s no value in repackaging the idea into “start marketing the day you code”. It’s confusing the real intent with an ambiguous and broad term.
  - tmartty 7y ago
    That's not a quote from the author of the book, that's something I wrote, just to be clear.
- kristianc 7y ago
  > That should probably fall under a different category than marketing. I work in product marketing for a large SaaS and would absolutely consider talking to customers (potential and actual), and talking to people who talk to customers (such as sales, CS) as part of my job. It would be incredibly hard to do my job without it. The answers to most questions in marketing come from outside the building. We’re not overloading the term - you appear to be narrowly defining the term as advertising and branding.
  - melling 7y ago
    Market research isn’t its own category? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_research
    - kristianc 7y ago
      Although you might hire specialist market research firms, market research definitely falls under the remit of the modern marketer’s job. Market research firms will also regularly supply insights and opinions about positioning, which definitely falls under marketing. Competitive differentiation is so fundamental to positioning that it doesn’t really make sense to treat them as siloed functions.
- NewsAware 7y ago
  The term is "product validation" which isn't core marketing of course. But for that you need initial users and to get these you need limited marketing efforts early on. No rocket science :-)

TruffleLabs 7y ago

Don’t wait! From the moment you decide to pursue the idea, you have to do marketing, advertising, and public relations. Yes, there is a cost. That’s the reality.

tmartty 7y ago
And it's usually a hard investment to do since what it most requires is time. And time is extremely valuable when you're first pursuing an idea and starting a project.
o-__-o 7y ago
I would not advertise until you have 1000 cold calls under your belt and a product. You will waste money advertising an alpha product. Your 20/80 customers won’t come from an ad. Press releases are your friend, Ive lost track of how many companies I’ve found with potential by simply watching the news wire the comes through my investment account website/app

o-__-o 7y ago

Doesn’t cost anything to make PowerPoint pitch decks. Doesn’t cost anything to write use-case documents. Doesn’t cost anything to throw a lead generation page up on GitHub. Costs a few bucks to get a domain name. Doesn’t cost anything to cold call 10 businesses every morning before you start coding. I think this is a stepping stone entrepreneurs learn only after a few failures. My last startup went from 0-90k in 5 months with simple marketing. Having premade material to give out means the difference between a follow up to a cold call and never following up with them again.. I’ve had both happen, so I always spend an hour or two selling, then marketing before doing any kind of coding or other deeply technical work