6 ms·

That is so depressing to read. US pharma companies are completely out of control, there’s absolutely no reason a 12 week treatment should cost around the mean

That is so depressing to read. US pharma companies are completely out of control, there’s absolutely no reason a 12 week treatment should cost around the mean annual US income. Can’t imagine having to decide to risk my entire financial future to deal with Hep C.

mc32 7y ago
I would hope that as more people test and get treated and the drug production gets ramped up, the price should go down significantly. A couple of decades ago only people like Magic Johnson could afford HIV drugs, for example.
whatshisface 7y ago
>there’s absolutely no reason a 12 week treatment should cost around the mean annual US income. What if it was synthesized in 5,000 steps from pure gold or something?
- gcatalfamo 7y ago
  But is it though?
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    I can't find any references that say the cost of manufacturing it or inventing it, so the only indication we have that it is expensive is the high price. Interferon is an entire protien so it can't be that cheap.
Bnshsysjab 7y ago
I’m not trying to disregard the need for cheap treatment, but by preventing pharma from developing drugs that they profit from kills all R&D. I’d be open on a success based public funding where IP becomes public domain, but I doubt big pharma would ever pull that trigger. I’m thankful for modern day drugs, like PReP and PEP (pre and post hiv exposure drugs), vaccines and cancer treatments to name a few, it just sucks that those less fortunate don’t have access yet.
wbl 7y ago
Did you complain this much about the transplant surgeon's bill?
georgeplusplus 7y ago
What’s the alternative? This gets tiresome asking because the typically argument is to say “This is crAzYyyy!!!! “ without offering any real solution or input. gilead the makers of Harvoni literally made a cure for a previously uncureable disease, You literally have no respect on a tech site of all places, for all the RnD that went into doing that.
- nickthemagicman 7y ago
  It's straight up price gouging though these companies are doing. As usual the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle.
  - lotsofpulp 7y ago
    How do you define gouging? Because a number looks big? Is Google/Apple/MS/FB price gouging? Their net incomes are massive. I'd be hard pressed to classify a situation were a company introduces a new product 80% cheaper than the alternative, and still be guilty of price gouging.
  - troydavis 7y ago
    > It's straight up price gouging though these companies are doing. I'm not sure the margins support that allegation. Sovaldi is manufactured by Gilead (which also makes a Harvoni generic). They don't break out drug-specific margin, but http://truecostofhealthcare.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Gilead-Graphs-1.pdf http://truecostofhealthcare.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/G... and https://www.investors.com/news/technology/can-gilead-withstand-hep-c-boom-and-bust-or-will-merck-abbvie-win/ https://www.investors.com/news/technology/can-gilead-withsta... have some food for thought. A couple things stand out: 1. Their profit margin varies year to year, but in the peak period from 2012-2019 it was 35-55%, averaging ~40-45%. While that's industry-leading for pharma, it's nowhere near high enough to say that their products could be, say, 75% (or even 50%) cheaper. A 20% reduction (very roughly cutting margins in half) wouldn't make it meaningfully more affordable and I don't think most people would describe that as gouging. 2. Apparently it actually cures the disease for many people, so this is a once-and-done treatment. Compared to nearly all other healthcare interventions, curing a life-threating chronic degenerative condition at this price is cheap. (Cost per death prevented of other interventions: https://journalofscientificinnovationinmedicine.org/articles/10.29024/jsim.2/print/ https://journalofscientificinnovationinmedicine.org/articles..., https://twitter.com/troyd/status/1195811217056485377 https://twitter.com/troyd/status/1195811217056485377) 3. After they cured so many people, there was a much smaller market (success!). Revenue and margin both dropped a lot: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GILD/gilead-sciences/profit-margins https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GILD/gilead-scienc... 4. "Gilead Sciences was also unique in that it was the only pharmaceutical company I examined that spent less money on marketing than they spent on research. Gilead’s marketing budget was only 15% of their total revenue."
sp332 7y ago
Have you wondered why, with so many potential customers, no one developed such a drug before if it were cheap and easy?
chimeracoder 7y ago
> Can’t imagine having to decide to risk my entire financial future to deal with Hep C. You'll be glad then to hear that very few people actually are. Those prices that are cited are meaningless - most insurance plans these days will cover the drugs, and even the insurance companies aren't paying those prices to the pharmaceutical companies, because there's such fierce competition among the companies producing HCV drugs that they'll cut deals with the insurer for a tiny fraction of those sticker prices.
masonic 7y ago
US pharma companies are completely out of control You are free to choose not to use any meds or therapies developed by US pharma companies. Fight the Power!

mc32 7y ago

I would hope that as more people test and get treated and the drug production gets ramped up, the price should go down significantly. A couple of decades ago only people like Magic Johnson could afford HIV drugs, for example.

whatshisface 7y ago

>there’s absolutely no reason a 12 week treatment should cost around the mean annual US income. What if it was synthesized in 5,000 steps from pure gold or something?

gcatalfamo 7y ago
But is it though?
- whatshisface 7y ago
  I can't find any references that say the cost of manufacturing it or inventing it, so the only indication we have that it is expensive is the high price. Interferon is an entire protien so it can't be that cheap.

Bnshsysjab 7y ago

I’m not trying to disregard the need for cheap treatment, but by preventing pharma from developing drugs that they profit from kills all R&D. I’d be open on a success based public funding where IP becomes public domain, but I doubt big pharma would ever pull that trigger. I’m thankful for modern day drugs, like PReP and PEP (pre and post hiv exposure drugs), vaccines and cancer treatments to name a few, it just sucks that those less fortunate don’t have access yet.

wbl 7y ago

Did you complain this much about the transplant surgeon's bill?

georgeplusplus 7y ago

What’s the alternative? This gets tiresome asking because the typically argument is to say “This is crAzYyyy!!!! “ without offering any real solution or input. gilead the makers of Harvoni literally made a cure for a previously uncureable disease, You literally have no respect on a tech site of all places, for all the RnD that went into doing that.

nickthemagicman 7y ago
It's straight up price gouging though these companies are doing. As usual the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  How do you define gouging? Because a number looks big? Is Google/Apple/MS/FB price gouging? Their net incomes are massive. I'd be hard pressed to classify a situation were a company introduces a new product 80% cheaper than the alternative, and still be guilty of price gouging.
- troydavis 7y ago
  > It's straight up price gouging though these companies are doing. I'm not sure the margins support that allegation. Sovaldi is manufactured by Gilead (which also makes a Harvoni generic). They don't break out drug-specific margin, but http://truecostofhealthcare.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Gilead-Graphs-1.pdf http://truecostofhealthcare.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/G... and https://www.investors.com/news/technology/can-gilead-withstand-hep-c-boom-and-bust-or-will-merck-abbvie-win/ https://www.investors.com/news/technology/can-gilead-withsta... have some food for thought. A couple things stand out: 1. Their profit margin varies year to year, but in the peak period from 2012-2019 it was 35-55%, averaging ~40-45%. While that's industry-leading for pharma, it's nowhere near high enough to say that their products could be, say, 75% (or even 50%) cheaper. A 20% reduction (very roughly cutting margins in half) wouldn't make it meaningfully more affordable and I don't think most people would describe that as gouging. 2. Apparently it actually cures the disease for many people, so this is a once-and-done treatment. Compared to nearly all other healthcare interventions, curing a life-threating chronic degenerative condition at this price is cheap. (Cost per death prevented of other interventions: https://journalofscientificinnovationinmedicine.org/articles/10.29024/jsim.2/print/ https://journalofscientificinnovationinmedicine.org/articles..., https://twitter.com/troyd/status/1195811217056485377 https://twitter.com/troyd/status/1195811217056485377) 3. After they cured so many people, there was a much smaller market (success!). Revenue and margin both dropped a lot: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GILD/gilead-sciences/profit-margins https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/GILD/gilead-scienc... 4. "Gilead Sciences was also unique in that it was the only pharmaceutical company I examined that spent less money on marketing than they spent on research. Gilead’s marketing budget was only 15% of their total revenue."

sp332 7y ago

Have you wondered why, with so many potential customers, no one developed such a drug before if it were cheap and easy?

chimeracoder 7y ago

> Can’t imagine having to decide to risk my entire financial future to deal with Hep C. You'll be glad then to hear that very few people actually are. Those prices that are cited are meaningless - most insurance plans these days will cover the drugs, and even the insurance companies aren't paying those prices to the pharmaceutical companies, because there's such fierce competition among the companies producing HCV drugs that they'll cut deals with the insurer for a tiny fraction of those sticker prices.

masonic 7y ago

US pharma companies are completely out of control You are free to choose not to use any meds or therapies developed by US pharma companies. Fight the Power!