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> nuclear That one is the kicker though. What do you think the support for this is amongst the extinction rebellion crowd and the likes of Greta "I see CO² wit

> nuclear That one is the kicker though. What do you think the support for this is amongst the extinction rebellion crowd and the likes of Greta "I see CO² with my naked eye"[1] Thunberg? This problem would be solved already if people were actually interested in solving it as opposed to politicking about it by doing things like demanding the end of economic growth in the west. [1] https://www.afrinik.com/my-daughter-can-see-co2-with-the-naked-eye/ https://www.afrinik.com/my-daughter-can-see-co2-with-the-nak... > She can see carbon dioxide with the naked eye. She sees how it flows out of chimneys and changes the atmosphere in a landfill.

rbg246 7y ago
Would it though? What's the lead time on training nuclear engineers, construction companies etc to start building reactors again. UK and European projects have gone massively over time and over budget. I mean maybe US, Europe and China can do this but can the rest of the world?
- ailideex 7y ago
  > I mean maybe US, Europe and China can do this but can the rest of the world? South Africa has problems getting conventional coal plants up and running [1][2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medupi_Power_Station#Delays_and_defects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medupi_Power_Station#Delays_an... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusile_Power_Station#Delays_and_defects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusile_Power_Station#Delays_an... And there is no real interest in mass roll out of solar and wind in South Africa - people would just be all to happy to get some reliability in electricity supply. So sure, the rest of the world will have problems - with nuclear and just about anything else. The problem still remains that energy storage is not a solved problem and wind and solar can maybe generate enough electricity but not in right places and not at the right times.
eggsmediumrare 7y ago
Did you read the article you posted? Like two paragraphs down they say she (her mother, Greta herself never said this) doesn't mean it literally.
- ailideex 7y ago
  https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/naked_eye https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/naked_eye > Eyesight, unaided by equipment such as a telescope or microscope. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/naked-eye https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/naked-ey... https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/naked%20eye https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/naked%20eye https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/the-naked-eye https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/the-nak... Saying X and then later saying that when you said X you obviously did not mean X is the textbook definition of gaslighting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting > Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, gaslighting involves attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's beliefs.
  - tempestn 7y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole > Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. In rhetoric, it is also sometimes known as auxesis (literally 'growth'). In poetry and oratory, it emphasizes, evokes strong feelings, and creates strong impressions. As a figure of speech, it is usually not meant to be taken literally. Since everyone knows gaseous CO2 is invisible to the naked eye, this is clearly an example of hyperbole. Presumably Greta's mother just gave people enough credit to realize that.
    - ailideex 7y ago
      If someone says they can see jesus with their naked eye and then tell people clearly they did not mean they can see jesus with their naked eye when they said they could because everybody knows jesus is not real is not hyperbole - it is either signs of mental instability or some half arsed attempt at gaslighting. I'm pretty sure when her mother said "She can see carbon dioxide with the naked eye", what she meant was "She can see carbon dioxide with the naked eye" and I base this belief on the fact that "She can see carbon dioxide with the naked eye" is verbatim what she said. I don't see why you are berating me for claiming someone said something which they said without qualifying that they did not mean what they said. If she did not mean what she said she also can clearly say that instead of trying to gaslight people. This would be like Bloomberg trying to defend themselves in that case where they were fined by France for publishing fake news by claiming clearly it was not fake news but hyperbole because everybody knows it was not true - which - if it is not clear to you - would be absurd.

rbg246 7y ago

Would it though? What's the lead time on training nuclear engineers, construction companies etc to start building reactors again. UK and European projects have gone massively over time and over budget. I mean maybe US, Europe and China can do this but can the rest of the world?

ailideex 7y ago
> I mean maybe US, Europe and China can do this but can the rest of the world? South Africa has problems getting conventional coal plants up and running [1][2] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medupi_Power_Station#Delays_and_defects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medupi_Power_Station#Delays_an... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusile_Power_Station#Delays_and_defects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusile_Power_Station#Delays_an... And there is no real interest in mass roll out of solar and wind in South Africa - people would just be all to happy to get some reliability in electricity supply. So sure, the rest of the world will have problems - with nuclear and just about anything else. The problem still remains that energy storage is not a solved problem and wind and solar can maybe generate enough electricity but not in right places and not at the right times.

eggsmediumrare 7y ago

Did you read the article you posted? Like two paragraphs down they say she (her mother, Greta herself never said this) doesn't mean it literally.

ailideex 7y ago
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/naked_eye https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/naked_eye > Eyesight, unaided by equipment such as a telescope or microscope. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/naked-eye https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/naked-ey... https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/naked%20eye https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/naked%20eye https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/the-naked-eye https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/the-nak... Saying X and then later saying that when you said X you obviously did not mean X is the textbook definition of gaslighting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting > Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, gaslighting involves attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's beliefs.
- tempestn 7y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole > Hyperbole is the use of exaggeration as a rhetorical device or figure of speech. In rhetoric, it is also sometimes known as auxesis (literally 'growth'). In poetry and oratory, it emphasizes, evokes strong feelings, and creates strong impressions. As a figure of speech, it is usually not meant to be taken literally. Since everyone knows gaseous CO2 is invisible to the naked eye, this is clearly an example of hyperbole. Presumably Greta's mother just gave people enough credit to realize that.
  - ailideex 7y ago
    If someone says they can see jesus with their naked eye and then tell people clearly they did not mean they can see jesus with their naked eye when they said they could because everybody knows jesus is not real is not hyperbole - it is either signs of mental instability or some half arsed attempt at gaslighting. I'm pretty sure when her mother said "She can see carbon dioxide with the naked eye", what she meant was "She can see carbon dioxide with the naked eye" and I base this belief on the fact that "She can see carbon dioxide with the naked eye" is verbatim what she said. I don't see why you are berating me for claiming someone said something which they said without qualifying that they did not mean what they said. If she did not mean what she said she also can clearly say that instead of trying to gaslight people. This would be like Bloomberg trying to defend themselves in that case where they were fined by France for publishing fake news by claiming clearly it was not fake news but hyperbole because everybody knows it was not true - which - if it is not clear to you - would be absurd.