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The argument made for GPS leading to hippocampal atrophy could easily be made for any new technology. And yet, the evidence of generations of expanding technol

The argument made for GPS leading to hippocampal atrophy could easily be made for any new technology. And yet, the evidence of generations of expanding technology, appears to be that it doesn’t affect brain function in any meaningful way. Instead our brains pocket the technological advance and start to move on to higher order stuff. I have a hard time believing that GPS is the one thing, specifically, that is going to buck that trend and make us all stupid. This does seem like more poorly sourced, poorly researched viral techno-gloom.

kortilla 7y ago
> move on to higher order stuff. I was with you until here. I think many people don’t end up doing “higher order” stuff with the extra bit of time they have driving. Maybe once self driving is here, but it’s not. I drive without GPS on long road trips and the cognitive load required is minimal so it’s not like it’s blocking me from thinking.
- pugio 7y ago
  Disagree. I love listening to audiobooks and podcasts while driving, and I love being able to just follow the GPS directions on auto pilot, trusting it will do a decent job, and warn be me when the appropriate turn approaches. When navigating sans GPS I spend much more time rehearsing routes and turns in my head, which means I have to pause or rewind my audiobook.
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    You should have your full attention on the road, not on your audiobook. I hope that if you ever get into an accident you will be frank about it and tell the other party - assuming they -- and you -- survive - that you were distracted.
    - scrollaway 7y ago
      I got a bit of a "yikes" at reading the parent comment as well but how is it actually any different from listening to the radio, which has been a thing drivers have done ever since we put radios in automobiles? Unlike "handsfree phones", listening to a podcast doesn't require interaction and full attention (although it does sound like GP is giving too much of theirs).
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        An audiobook is an immersive experience, it engages your imagination (if the audiobook is any good at all), listening to the radio (assuming they don't read well written full length books on the radio) is not.
        TillE 7y ago
        Radio dramas have been extremely popular in many places since forever. So have "books on tape". It's utterly bizarre to make these kinds of accusations.
        jacquesm 7y ago
        What's bizarre about it? Driving is a full-time occupation, not a part-time occupation. If you have to do it do it responsibly. In complex situations listening to audiobooks is a dangerous affair, in simple situations it may improve attention but simple situations can turn complex in a hurry in a moving vehicle. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29223795 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29223795
      - usrusr 7y ago
        Radio shows are almost universally made to be randomly tuned in and out, whereas books are written under the assumption that you never skip a line, pausing and even re-reading as necessary. Audiobooks are sitting in an awkward position between them, carrying over all the assumptions of the printed book into a medium of forced time. This is very similar to how talking to someone in the car is much less distracting than taking on hands-free: even the worst passenger will take more cues from the traffic situation about when it's ok to talk, when not to expect an immediate reply and so on than someone behind a phone line. Sure, an audiobook is less bad than many other driving distractions, but still a whole different league than radio (and also many podcasts I guess).
    - nielsole 7y ago
      I would argue the opposite. Audiobooks/podcasts keep me alert in dull driving situations. And whenever a situation arises that demands my full attention, I (subconsciously) stop paying attention to the audio for ~30s until the situation is fully resolved. I would say it net-increases safety at least on long-distance/commute.
      - jacquesm 7y ago
        You can tell yourself that but your time to switch away from having your attention on your audiobooks/podcasts (the latter probably less so, they are much more like radio) is going to be longer than if you weren't concentrating on them. Immersive experiences tend to make us see stuff in our heads that isn't really there depending on how good the writer/narrator is at calling on our imagination. So unless the audiobook is really bad it is going to require some non-zero fraction of your attention and imagination engaged and that's about as close to daydreaming as you can get. Not the best state to be in while driving.
- barrkel 7y ago
  GPS is most useful in urban environments (though skyscrapers are a PITA) with lots of one-way streets, restricted junctions etc. Long road trips hardly need a GPS at all, particularly if you're using motorways, as you can go a dozen miles between intersections and you may only change direction every two or three hundred miles.
stinos 7y ago
Instead our brains pocket the technological advance and start to move on to higher order stuff. I'm not so sure they really do. But I'm also not sure what you mean with 'higher order stuff'. Anyway I see just so many examples of technology not leading to people doing more complicated/smarter/... stuff. I just see people doing what they always do, but in a different way. Some use technology to get creative, others to gain knowledge, others just don't use those capibilities and instead watch hours and hours of TV commercials or subpar sitcoms. Pretty sure without all the tech the creative people would still be creative and the seekers would still seek. Sure there might be slight shifts here and there, there can be more time to spare on different things enabled by technology, but I'm really skeptical there are major changes (though if you have links to research proving otherwise by all means share).

kortilla 7y ago

> move on to higher order stuff. I was with you until here. I think many people don’t end up doing “higher order” stuff with the extra bit of time they have driving. Maybe once self driving is here, but it’s not. I drive without GPS on long road trips and the cognitive load required is minimal so it’s not like it’s blocking me from thinking.

pugio 7y ago
Disagree. I love listening to audiobooks and podcasts while driving, and I love being able to just follow the GPS directions on auto pilot, trusting it will do a decent job, and warn be me when the appropriate turn approaches. When navigating sans GPS I spend much more time rehearsing routes and turns in my head, which means I have to pause or rewind my audiobook.
- jacquesm 7y ago
  You should have your full attention on the road, not on your audiobook. I hope that if you ever get into an accident you will be frank about it and tell the other party - assuming they -- and you -- survive - that you were distracted.
  - scrollaway 7y ago
    I got a bit of a "yikes" at reading the parent comment as well but how is it actually any different from listening to the radio, which has been a thing drivers have done ever since we put radios in automobiles? Unlike "handsfree phones", listening to a podcast doesn't require interaction and full attention (although it does sound like GP is giving too much of theirs).
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      An audiobook is an immersive experience, it engages your imagination (if the audiobook is any good at all), listening to the radio (assuming they don't read well written full length books on the radio) is not.
      - TillE 7y ago
        Radio dramas have been extremely popular in many places since forever. So have "books on tape". It's utterly bizarre to make these kinds of accusations.
        jacquesm 7y ago
        What's bizarre about it? Driving is a full-time occupation, not a part-time occupation. If you have to do it do it responsibly. In complex situations listening to audiobooks is a dangerous affair, in simple situations it may improve attention but simple situations can turn complex in a hurry in a moving vehicle. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29223795 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29223795
    - usrusr 7y ago
      Radio shows are almost universally made to be randomly tuned in and out, whereas books are written under the assumption that you never skip a line, pausing and even re-reading as necessary. Audiobooks are sitting in an awkward position between them, carrying over all the assumptions of the printed book into a medium of forced time. This is very similar to how talking to someone in the car is much less distracting than taking on hands-free: even the worst passenger will take more cues from the traffic situation about when it's ok to talk, when not to expect an immediate reply and so on than someone behind a phone line. Sure, an audiobook is less bad than many other driving distractions, but still a whole different league than radio (and also many podcasts I guess).
  - nielsole 7y ago
    I would argue the opposite. Audiobooks/podcasts keep me alert in dull driving situations. And whenever a situation arises that demands my full attention, I (subconsciously) stop paying attention to the audio for ~30s until the situation is fully resolved. I would say it net-increases safety at least on long-distance/commute.
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      You can tell yourself that but your time to switch away from having your attention on your audiobooks/podcasts (the latter probably less so, they are much more like radio) is going to be longer than if you weren't concentrating on them. Immersive experiences tend to make us see stuff in our heads that isn't really there depending on how good the writer/narrator is at calling on our imagination. So unless the audiobook is really bad it is going to require some non-zero fraction of your attention and imagination engaged and that's about as close to daydreaming as you can get. Not the best state to be in while driving.
barrkel 7y ago
GPS is most useful in urban environments (though skyscrapers are a PITA) with lots of one-way streets, restricted junctions etc. Long road trips hardly need a GPS at all, particularly if you're using motorways, as you can go a dozen miles between intersections and you may only change direction every two or three hundred miles.

stinos 7y ago

Instead our brains pocket the technological advance and start to move on to higher order stuff. I'm not so sure they really do. But I'm also not sure what you mean with 'higher order stuff'. Anyway I see just so many examples of technology not leading to people doing more complicated/smarter/... stuff. I just see people doing what they always do, but in a different way. Some use technology to get creative, others to gain knowledge, others just don't use those capibilities and instead watch hours and hours of TV commercials or subpar sitcoms. Pretty sure without all the tech the creative people would still be creative and the seekers would still seek. Sure there might be slight shifts here and there, there can be more time to spare on different things enabled by technology, but I'm really skeptical there are major changes (though if you have links to research proving otherwise by all means share).