12 ms·

Just want to add that I had a somewhat similar experience under the influence of THC (I had several edibles). I took away much the same 'revelation' of the true

by gbjw 7y ago

Just want to add that I had a somewhat similar experience under the influence of THC (I had several edibles). I took away much the same 'revelation' of the true existential terror of 'oneness'. I felt like I was stuck in a 'perception loop' where I (and all of the world) was in an infinite self-referential loop and I was identical to that loop. The true terror came from me trying to 'break out' of the loop, and being unable to. I remember continually asking the question 'who perceives the perceiver?' and then reaching for an answer, only to be kicked 'up a level' in this recursive loop and starting the process all over again. Eventually I was overwhelmed by a Sisyphean resignation; I was condemned to exist in this loop for all time, continually confused, with nothing to ground 'myself' and in a constant battle against 'myself'. Looking back, the feeling of being 'trapped' was somewhat reminiscent of my experience of 'sleep paralysis' (and also occurred as I was falling asleep) though on an ineffably more terrifying scale. I'm not sure if other people who've experienced bad trips on weed (that are hallucinogenic in nature) have felt something similar. When I awoke the next day, I suddenly had the distinct realization that the existence of other living beings and their eventual death (as my own) was an immense gift. Eternal existence as some monistic 'God' suddenly appeared to be the ultimate hell.

vjktyu 7y ago
Sounds like a very well put summary of lamrim. The book also tells how to break the loop: learn to focus thoughts, understand the concept of emptiness, analyze this concept with laser focused attention. So I've been wondering what happens when someone on lsd enters this highly-focused mode and directs attention at the concept of emptiness.
- gbjw 7y ago
  Ah, interesting. I have not read much about Tibetan Buddhism. Is the loop you are referring to specifically one of 'subjectivity' (i.e., the self perceiving the self) or the broader loop of reincarnation? Any recommended introductory books on the topic for a philosophically-inclined spiritually-inexperienced Westerner?
  - vjktyu 7y ago
    The latter. The 4th volume of lamrim (by tsong-kha-pa) is a good summary with references to other books. That volume has been translated into English and us called "discerning the real" or something like that. Tsongkhapa gives a reference to a more detailed "manual" called "the 10 levels of sravakas", but that book hasn't been translated, although Max Muller made some initial sketches.
- idclip 7y ago
  That’s what training Samādhi is, thats why Buddhists develop single pointed focus and use the breath as an object. Very cool actually. There is one difference to the loops of our trips and the loops thats broken by conscious single pointed effort. Our drug induced loops are, i find, broken by an emotional acceptance, while the loop broken by intense focus is that of the suffering of existing. I tried to meditate on LSD and honestly i dont think we are capable of the feat of trying to focus while on it. Meditation sort if opens a door veeerrryyy slowly, and even that goes wrong sometimes, while i find that the experience of LSD is like a flood. Well beyond containing. Maybe if a zen master tried it, but i suspect that a truely awake person wont be effected by LSD like we do, he would just shrug “ofcourse”
  - vjktyu 7y ago
    Why can't you do it under lsd? Is it the skill to think is somehow disabled or it's just a flood of distracting events that make it hard to stay focused?
idclip 7y ago
Its funny you know, I dont see the loop as hell, i accepted the loop as nature, so when i succumbed and accepted, i felt gratitude for having others around. Maybe its the intensity of the dose, or our underlying temperaments. I tend to think its a matter of how much time you spend in the loop. Ironically, i still feel very sorry for “god”. If we feel human feelings and human loneliness, a perfect all knowing thing can feel loneliness on a godly scale, and that’s beyond any horror we can imagine.
Calamity 7y ago
When I try and communicate to others this idea that death is actually truly a blessing, I generally begin by asking someone whether - if they really thought about it - they would choose to be immortal if given the option. The classic idea of "heaven", from that point of view, takes on a different spin.

by gbjw 7y ago

vjktyu 7y ago

Sounds like a very well put summary of lamrim. The book also tells how to break the loop: learn to focus thoughts, understand the concept of emptiness, analyze this concept with laser focused attention. So I've been wondering what happens when someone on lsd enters this highly-focused mode and directs attention at the concept of emptiness.

gbjw 7y ago
Ah, interesting. I have not read much about Tibetan Buddhism. Is the loop you are referring to specifically one of 'subjectivity' (i.e., the self perceiving the self) or the broader loop of reincarnation? Any recommended introductory books on the topic for a philosophically-inclined spiritually-inexperienced Westerner?
- vjktyu 7y ago
  The latter. The 4th volume of lamrim (by tsong-kha-pa) is a good summary with references to other books. That volume has been translated into English and us called "discerning the real" or something like that. Tsongkhapa gives a reference to a more detailed "manual" called "the 10 levels of sravakas", but that book hasn't been translated, although Max Muller made some initial sketches.
idclip 7y ago
That’s what training Samādhi is, thats why Buddhists develop single pointed focus and use the breath as an object. Very cool actually. There is one difference to the loops of our trips and the loops thats broken by conscious single pointed effort. Our drug induced loops are, i find, broken by an emotional acceptance, while the loop broken by intense focus is that of the suffering of existing. I tried to meditate on LSD and honestly i dont think we are capable of the feat of trying to focus while on it. Meditation sort if opens a door veeerrryyy slowly, and even that goes wrong sometimes, while i find that the experience of LSD is like a flood. Well beyond containing. Maybe if a zen master tried it, but i suspect that a truely awake person wont be effected by LSD like we do, he would just shrug “ofcourse”
- vjktyu 7y ago
  Why can't you do it under lsd? Is it the skill to think is somehow disabled or it's just a flood of distracting events that make it hard to stay focused?

idclip 7y ago

Its funny you know, I dont see the loop as hell, i accepted the loop as nature, so when i succumbed and accepted, i felt gratitude for having others around. Maybe its the intensity of the dose, or our underlying temperaments. I tend to think its a matter of how much time you spend in the loop. Ironically, i still feel very sorry for “god”. If we feel human feelings and human loneliness, a perfect all knowing thing can feel loneliness on a godly scale, and that’s beyond any horror we can imagine.

Calamity 7y ago

When I try and communicate to others this idea that death is actually truly a blessing, I generally begin by asking someone whether - if they really thought about it - they would choose to be immortal if given the option. The classic idea of "heaven", from that point of view, takes on a different spin.