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Besides reading about them has anybody had first hand experience with "breathable" stuff that actually keeps you dry in real rain? To me this stuff seems like a

Besides reading about them has anybody had first hand experience with "breathable" stuff that actually keeps you dry in real rain? To me this stuff seems like a mythical beast that is supposed to exist but I can never find.

ip26 7y ago
Depends on your expectations. - Breathable clothing only stays breathable in a downpour if the face fabric stays dry, e.g. the DWR is not overwhelmed - The clothing is usually a pretty active cut, compared to galoshes and ponchos. This tends to allow water in at the neck, cuffs, and waist over time. - The breathability is driven by positive vapor pressure, so it will get humid inside the jacket.
- ip26 7y ago
  Oh, you also need to be warm enough to evaporate your sweat. If you are too cold in your jacket your sweat will condense.
DubiousPusher 7y ago
I backpack in the Pacific Northwest and have hiked for hours in pouring rain at temperatures of berween 40 and 80 degrees and have found a standard gortex jacket by Marmot to be totally acceptable for this task. On warm days I were just a base layer (the wickier the better) under the jacket with all the air vents open. I sweat a lot so I need good airflow. I imagine if you bike in similar conditions you'd need a better solution but aside from a lot of gimmicks I'm not sure what would be better.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > I backpack in the Pacific Northwest and have hiked for hours in pouring rain at temperatures of berween 40 and 80 degrees and have found a standard gortex jacket by Marmot to be totally acceptable for this task. Aren't you sweating inside the jacket anyway due to hiking? So you're wet inside whether you’re wearing a jacket or not? So what's the point in a waterproof jacket? I think it's best to just accept you're going to get wet, wear basic fabrics, and practice wet-dry drills.
  - ip26 7y ago
    No, you get humid, but not wet when everything is working right. Your sweat evaporates and you are not wet.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      Depends how fast you’re moving, what kind of climb you’re hiking up and what kind of load, I guess, but I’ve been sweating out in a snow storm in Wales when carrying a heavy pack moving at speed and I would not have wanted a waterproof on.
      - ip26 7y ago
        Sure, you can sweat more than your jacket can transpire. In general though I think you should strive to avoid liquid sweat in winter conditions, not just "accept" it. Improve your layers, or your fitness, or reduce your load or speed. Getting wet in winter can be dangerous.
        chrisseaton 7y ago
        > reduce your load or speed Not really an option if you need to be at a given place at a given time with given equipment! That's why the military don't fight in waterproofs. They just accept they're going to get wet and then practice disciplined wet-dry drills.
        ip26 7y ago
        I thought we were talking about backpacking in the pacific northwest (or at least other recreation). Obviously the military is a completely different animal, and they do not care what I think.
whatshisface 7y ago
What situations are there where owning two separate jackets, one for emitting sweat and another for keeping rain off, couldn't work?
- vineyardmike 7y ago
  emitting sweat in the rain?
  - cassianoleal 7y ago
    Also, when it rains in the morning when you go to work, but is sunny and not so cold when you head back home (or the other way around). Obviously, you _could_ carry two jackets in that case, but if you live in London (like me) there's no way to know for sure which you'll need before you leave the house.
ummonk 7y ago
I've found my Arcteryx hard shell to be somewhat breathable. I much prefer to open the pit zips when I need to cool off though.
snowwrestler 7y ago
If you want to stay dry in the rain, you will need more than just good fabric, you will need a good garment--i.e. one that fits properly and does not allow water in through zippers, cuffs, or hood. The most common way for people to get wet in a rain jacket--aside from sweat--is rain hitting their face and then running down their chin and neck. If your face is getting wet from rain, your chest will get wet too. Breathable fabric can be waterproof; Gore-Tex is used in waders and dry suits, where it works fine under full immersion. Unlike most rain jackets, those garments have very good mechanical sealing. When they leak, it is almost always at a seam or a pin-hole (like from pushing through river-side thorns).
peterwwillis 7y ago
For different definitions of all those terms you've used, yes, but basically, no. Breathable means water vapor can pass. If there's no way for vapor to pass, then it's not breathing. If the surface of the material is saturated with something (water, oil/dirt) it's probably not gonna breathe. The closest thing I can think of to what you're asking for is a trench coat. It's baggy and has ok airflow, but the outside is mostly water proof, depending on the fabric. My leather trench coat keeps me dry and warm in hours of pouring rain, and the cotton one does a decent job too. Of course then someone asks about an "active" version, but I'm fairly certain that if your skin is emitting its own water, you just aren't going to be dry. My suggestion then is wool base layers, so even if you're wet, you're warm.
deepakhj 7y ago
https://missionworkshop.com/products/the-orion-waterproof-jacket https://missionworkshop.com/products/the-orion-waterproof-ja... uses Toray Entrant and has served me well cycling in the rain.

ip26 7y ago

Depends on your expectations. - Breathable clothing only stays breathable in a downpour if the face fabric stays dry, e.g. the DWR is not overwhelmed - The clothing is usually a pretty active cut, compared to galoshes and ponchos. This tends to allow water in at the neck, cuffs, and waist over time. - The breathability is driven by positive vapor pressure, so it will get humid inside the jacket.

ip26 7y ago
Oh, you also need to be warm enough to evaporate your sweat. If you are too cold in your jacket your sweat will condense.

DubiousPusher 7y ago

I backpack in the Pacific Northwest and have hiked for hours in pouring rain at temperatures of berween 40 and 80 degrees and have found a standard gortex jacket by Marmot to be totally acceptable for this task. On warm days I were just a base layer (the wickier the better) under the jacket with all the air vents open. I sweat a lot so I need good airflow. I imagine if you bike in similar conditions you'd need a better solution but aside from a lot of gimmicks I'm not sure what would be better.

chrisseaton 7y ago
> I backpack in the Pacific Northwest and have hiked for hours in pouring rain at temperatures of berween 40 and 80 degrees and have found a standard gortex jacket by Marmot to be totally acceptable for this task. Aren't you sweating inside the jacket anyway due to hiking? So you're wet inside whether you’re wearing a jacket or not? So what's the point in a waterproof jacket? I think it's best to just accept you're going to get wet, wear basic fabrics, and practice wet-dry drills.
- ip26 7y ago
  No, you get humid, but not wet when everything is working right. Your sweat evaporates and you are not wet.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    Depends how fast you’re moving, what kind of climb you’re hiking up and what kind of load, I guess, but I’ve been sweating out in a snow storm in Wales when carrying a heavy pack moving at speed and I would not have wanted a waterproof on.
    - ip26 7y ago
      Sure, you can sweat more than your jacket can transpire. In general though I think you should strive to avoid liquid sweat in winter conditions, not just "accept" it. Improve your layers, or your fitness, or reduce your load or speed. Getting wet in winter can be dangerous.
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        > reduce your load or speed Not really an option if you need to be at a given place at a given time with given equipment! That's why the military don't fight in waterproofs. They just accept they're going to get wet and then practice disciplined wet-dry drills.
        ip26 7y ago
        I thought we were talking about backpacking in the pacific northwest (or at least other recreation). Obviously the military is a completely different animal, and they do not care what I think.

whatshisface 7y ago

What situations are there where owning two separate jackets, one for emitting sweat and another for keeping rain off, couldn't work?

vineyardmike 7y ago
emitting sweat in the rain?
- cassianoleal 7y ago
  Also, when it rains in the morning when you go to work, but is sunny and not so cold when you head back home (or the other way around). Obviously, you _could_ carry two jackets in that case, but if you live in London (like me) there's no way to know for sure which you'll need before you leave the house.

ummonk 7y ago

I've found my Arcteryx hard shell to be somewhat breathable. I much prefer to open the pit zips when I need to cool off though.

snowwrestler 7y ago

If you want to stay dry in the rain, you will need more than just good fabric, you will need a good garment--i.e. one that fits properly and does not allow water in through zippers, cuffs, or hood. The most common way for people to get wet in a rain jacket--aside from sweat--is rain hitting their face and then running down their chin and neck. If your face is getting wet from rain, your chest will get wet too. Breathable fabric can be waterproof; Gore-Tex is used in waders and dry suits, where it works fine under full immersion. Unlike most rain jackets, those garments have very good mechanical sealing. When they leak, it is almost always at a seam or a pin-hole (like from pushing through river-side thorns).

peterwwillis 7y ago

For different definitions of all those terms you've used, yes, but basically, no. Breathable means water vapor can pass. If there's no way for vapor to pass, then it's not breathing. If the surface of the material is saturated with something (water, oil/dirt) it's probably not gonna breathe. The closest thing I can think of to what you're asking for is a trench coat. It's baggy and has ok airflow, but the outside is mostly water proof, depending on the fabric. My leather trench coat keeps me dry and warm in hours of pouring rain, and the cotton one does a decent job too. Of course then someone asks about an "active" version, but I'm fairly certain that if your skin is emitting its own water, you just aren't going to be dry. My suggestion then is wool base layers, so even if you're wet, you're warm.

deepakhj 7y ago

https://missionworkshop.com/products/the-orion-waterproof-jacket https://missionworkshop.com/products/the-orion-waterproof-ja... uses Toray Entrant and has served me well cycling in the rain.