6 ms·

> Not sure about that number Based on what? Why would your gut reaction to this entire story be "I'm suspicious of that dollar amount" [1]?. The fact that it's

by meritt 7y ago

> Not sure about that number Based on what? Why would your gut reaction to this entire story be "I'm suspicious of that dollar amount" [1]?. The fact that it's revenue and not sales doesn't somehow make the headline false. It's still a loss of revenue. The broader point of this story and others is that Amazon has a rampant counterfeit goods problem and they do little to nothing to ensure authenticity for consumers. > where OP ironically appears to be ripping off from It's a local news station. Watch the video. They interviewed the manufacturer. They likely read the original story and decided to bring additional attention to a local business. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality

ikeboy 7y ago
>Why would your gut reaction to this entire story be "I'm suspicious of that dollar amount" Because it's presented without any explanation or context, and it's difficult to see how it could be reasonably estimated. The headline is literally false. Losing revenue, even if that estimate is accurate, is not correctly described as losing money. It's kind of how cops inaccurately report "street value" of confiscated drugs - see e.g. https://www.cjr.org/analysis/drug_bust.php https://www.cjr.org/analysis/drug_bust.php >The broader point of this story and others is that Amazon has a rampant counterfeit goods problem and they do little to nothing to ensure authenticity for consumers. And this point is wrong, of course. If anything, they go too far - I've seen many victims of their overzealous enforcement and am one myself. There's been many lawsuits by companies that have been blocked from selling despite selling only authentic products. That's hardly consistent with them doing little to nothing.
- meritt 7y ago
  Yes I'm aware of your case [1]. You sold non-retail unpackaged electronics on Amazon, you are not an authorized reseller, and were accused of selling counterfeit goods. TP-Link got you banned from Amazon. Now you're suing TP-Link for $5M-10M because you lost ~$100k/mo profit. But the story above is about actual counterfeit goods. Not people reselling wholesale goods for below MAPs to retail customers. [1] https://pdfhost.io/v/zU6v@9u0_Microsoft_Word_TSI_complaint6docx.pdf https://pdfhost.io/v/zU6v@9u0_Microsoft_Word_TSI_complaint6d...
  - ikeboy 7y ago
    I'm responding to your point that Amazon does "little to nothing to ensure authenticity for consumers." I disagree, and I'd imagine the plaintiffs in the following cases would as well: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16620676/v-fjallraven-usa-retail-llc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16620676/v-fjallraven-u... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16601182/ems-imports-llc-v-u-tec-group-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16601182/ems-imports-ll... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16462329/ly-berditchev-corp-v-lavazza-premium-coffees-corp/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16462329/ly-berditchev-... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16139905/eng-sales-llc-v-mary-ruyan-llc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16139905/eng-sales-llc-... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16610999/big-birds-llc-v-cc-beauty-collection-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16610999/big-birds-llc-... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16440121/oj-commerce-llc-v-standard-sales-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16440121/oj-commerce-ll... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16438724/oj-commerce-llc-v-actiontec-electronics-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16438724/oj-commerce-ll... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/15028460/dj-direct-inc-v-omm-imports-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/15028460/dj-direct-inc-... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6846972/starke-v-tp-link-usa-corporation/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6846972/starke-v-tp-lin... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/13477612/johnson-v-incopro-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/13477612/johnson-v-inco... Or for that matter, the 12,000+ people who've signed a petition complaining about Amazon's overzealous enforcement at https://www.change.org/p/jeff-bezos-amazon-com-should-only-suspend-the-asin-not-the-seller https://www.change.org/p/jeff-bezos-amazon-com-should-only-s.... Read through a few of the comments there. False positives rates go up when trying to minimize the false negative rate. As such, evidence that the false positive rate is high shows that actual counterfeits are being enforced heavily as well. Anyway, OP doesn't mention any specific actions they expected Amazon to take that weren't taken. It doesn't say, for example, that they asked Amazon to take down counterfeits and were refused.
    - meritt 7y ago
      I think we're in agreement regarding Amazon: They don't take an active role in policing their marketplace. They have a "report this listing" mechanism that essentially bans a seller outright, with no effort to validate the claim. They just assume it's legit by default and the seller is always in the wrong. But to be clear, the brands are the ones taking action (and thus the defendant in these lawsuits), Amazon has essentially no role. It's my view that Amazon themselves should be taking action on behalf of both consumers and sellers to ensure that: 1) products are authentic, and 2) consumers can get the best prices possible even if that's from an "unauthorized reseller"

by meritt 7y ago

ikeboy 7y ago

>Why would your gut reaction to this entire story be "I'm suspicious of that dollar amount" Because it's presented without any explanation or context, and it's difficult to see how it could be reasonably estimated. The headline is literally false. Losing revenue, even if that estimate is accurate, is not correctly described as losing money. It's kind of how cops inaccurately report "street value" of confiscated drugs - see e.g. https://www.cjr.org/analysis/drug_bust.php https://www.cjr.org/analysis/drug_bust.php >The broader point of this story and others is that Amazon has a rampant counterfeit goods problem and they do little to nothing to ensure authenticity for consumers. And this point is wrong, of course. If anything, they go too far - I've seen many victims of their overzealous enforcement and am one myself. There's been many lawsuits by companies that have been blocked from selling despite selling only authentic products. That's hardly consistent with them doing little to nothing.

meritt 7y ago
Yes I'm aware of your case [1]. You sold non-retail unpackaged electronics on Amazon, you are not an authorized reseller, and were accused of selling counterfeit goods. TP-Link got you banned from Amazon. Now you're suing TP-Link for $5M-10M because you lost ~$100k/mo profit. But the story above is about actual counterfeit goods. Not people reselling wholesale goods for below MAPs to retail customers. [1] https://pdfhost.io/v/zU6v@9u0_Microsoft_Word_TSI_complaint6docx.pdf https://pdfhost.io/v/zU6v@9u0_Microsoft_Word_TSI_complaint6d...
- ikeboy 7y ago
  I'm responding to your point that Amazon does "little to nothing to ensure authenticity for consumers." I disagree, and I'd imagine the plaintiffs in the following cases would as well: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16620676/v-fjallraven-usa-retail-llc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16620676/v-fjallraven-u... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16601182/ems-imports-llc-v-u-tec-group-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16601182/ems-imports-ll... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16462329/ly-berditchev-corp-v-lavazza-premium-coffees-corp/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16462329/ly-berditchev-... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16139905/eng-sales-llc-v-mary-ruyan-llc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16139905/eng-sales-llc-... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16610999/big-birds-llc-v-cc-beauty-collection-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16610999/big-birds-llc-... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16440121/oj-commerce-llc-v-standard-sales-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16440121/oj-commerce-ll... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16438724/oj-commerce-llc-v-actiontec-electronics-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16438724/oj-commerce-ll... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/15028460/dj-direct-inc-v-omm-imports-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/15028460/dj-direct-inc-... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6846972/starke-v-tp-link-usa-corporation/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/6846972/starke-v-tp-lin... https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/13477612/johnson-v-incopro-inc/ https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/13477612/johnson-v-inco... Or for that matter, the 12,000+ people who've signed a petition complaining about Amazon's overzealous enforcement at https://www.change.org/p/jeff-bezos-amazon-com-should-only-suspend-the-asin-not-the-seller https://www.change.org/p/jeff-bezos-amazon-com-should-only-s.... Read through a few of the comments there. False positives rates go up when trying to minimize the false negative rate. As such, evidence that the false positive rate is high shows that actual counterfeits are being enforced heavily as well. Anyway, OP doesn't mention any specific actions they expected Amazon to take that weren't taken. It doesn't say, for example, that they asked Amazon to take down counterfeits and were refused.
  - meritt 7y ago
    I think we're in agreement regarding Amazon: They don't take an active role in policing their marketplace. They have a "report this listing" mechanism that essentially bans a seller outright, with no effort to validate the claim. They just assume it's legit by default and the seller is always in the wrong. But to be clear, the brands are the ones taking action (and thus the defendant in these lawsuits), Amazon has essentially no role. It's my view that Amazon themselves should be taking action on behalf of both consumers and sellers to ensure that: 1) products are authentic, and 2) consumers can get the best prices possible even if that's from an "unauthorized reseller"