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“Breathability” Comparison of Commercial Outerwear Shell Layers (2018) [pdf]
- mrob 7y agoThis study is older than 2018. I used it to decide on eVENT (terrible unsearchable name) fabric when I bought waterproof clothing over 7 years ago. I need breathable waterproof clothing because I cycle as my main form of transportation, including in bad weather. I find eVENT breathability adequate for staying dry while cycling at a relaxed pace (12mph average over fairly flat terrain on a touring bike), but insufficient at my more usual pace of about 15mph (same conditions). If there's only light rain I'll open pockets to get unimpeded air flow, which makes a big difference. If I was buying again I'd get something with specifically designed vents for more airflow. There's probably no fabric that can keep you dry during fast cycling while fully enclosed. If you only ride slowly or use electrical assistance then eVENT is likely good enough.
- amluto 7y agoI also referenced this study when I bought ski wear. eVENT indeed seems pretty good, although they used to have an obnoxious “direct venting” marketing scheme in which they didn’t allow vent zippers because the fabric breathes so well. This is, of course, nonsense. It’s worth noting that, in cold dry weather, you don’t necessarily want maximum breathability. If the humidity inside your jacket drops too much, then your skins loses a lot of moisture, which dries you out and also means you lose a lot of heat to evaporative cooling. So the Gore-Tex XCR curve might actually be good: it transmits vapor better when humidity is high.
- kingbirdy 7y agoIn cold weather, you'd probably be wearing another layer under your shell
- amluto 7y agoMost inner layers are extremely breathable. They generally allow air and vapor to pass through freely.
- jupp0r 7y agoIn cold, dry weather you shouldn't wear a waterproof jacket.
- goatinaboat 7y agoWhile technically correct most people will have one or two jackets that they wear in a range of weather conditions. Owning the perfect jacket for every condition and carrying them all with you to change is not very feasible for most people.
- senderista 7y agoBut you should usually wear a windproof layer, and a waterproof layer serves as such, even if it's overkill.
- superseeplus 7y agoIf you are out in cold, dry and windy conditions, then you can wear a jacket made from a highly breathable but windproof material. The one I have is made from Gore Windstopper.
- senderista 7y agoI prefer to layer a very thin windshirt under my insulating layer.
- jupp0r 7y agoFrom my experience skiing above the polar circle in Sweden, dew point being inside the jacket becomes a real issue. Moisture freezing inside the jacket and lots of ice thawing when the sun comes out has been no fun.
- JshWright 7y agoThe eVENT design reminds me of the Breathe-o-Smart windows from Douglas Adams' _Mostly Harmless_. > The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.
- upofadown 7y agoFor cold and dry, poor breathability is a fairly serious issue. Moisture will condense out in your clothing which makes things quite uncomfortable. If you wear a membrane like Gore-Tex as an outer shell then the moisture will actually freeze. As a result membranes in such climates are best avoided. Just bring along a light raincoat if it is warm enough that rain is possible. Source: a life spent in southern Manitoba,Canada.
- lstamour 7y agoJudging purely by the computer in the included photo, I would imagine the study dates to around the year 2000. There was a Goretex XCR launch announcement Feb 2000: http://julieturns.com/goretex/news/uk0002_xcr_newgen.html http://julieturns.com/goretex/news/uk0002_xcr_newgen.html September 19, 2000 is clearly called out in the paper’s references, perhaps as an “access date”?
- semi-extrinsic 7y agoFWIW Goretex XCR is now called Goretex Pro, and is really good shit. Not least when it comes to durability, I have an old XCR jacket from 2004 that's seen around 500 days of skiing before it started showing poor waterproofness last year.
- modeless 7y agoThis is cool. I have purchased several pairs of pants that claimed to be "breathable" but in fact were anything but. I'd basically given up on breathable waterproof fabrics but this study seems to indicate that some of them may be OK.
- starpilot 7y agoSome of these don't exist anymore. Nextec from Patagonia, huh? I've given up finding a breathable waterproof layer. If it's heavy rain then I accept I'll get sweaty underneath, if it's cold then water resistant soft shells are awesome.
- int_19h 7y agoI experimented with different waterproof membranes a lot, and the one that seems to really breathe the best not just on paper is Polartec NeoShell. It also has a correspondingly lower waterproof rating, but still high enough to be fully rainproof. The downside (or the upside, depending on your perspective) is that it's not windproof - you can very much feel the gusts going through it. It's also not as sturdy as Gore-Tex.
- MrBuddyCasino 7y agoI‘ve heard reports [0] that Polartec NeoShell is not very durable. After a few months of light usage, apparently the fabric develops cracks at the shoulders and wrists. [0] https://www.bergfreunde.de/basislager/polartec-neoshell-das-beste-aus-zwei-welten/ https://www.bergfreunde.de/basislager/polartec-neoshell-das-...
- int_19h 7y agoMy NeoShell items have 1-3 years of usage on them, without any cracks. This looks like a single comment - more likely to be an issue with that particular manufacturer or product.
- Ididntdothis 7y agoBesides reading about them has anybody had first hand experience with "breathable" stuff that actually keeps you dry in real rain? To me this stuff seems like a mythical beast that is supposed to exist but I can never find.
- ip26 7y agoDepends on your expectations. - Breathable clothing only stays breathable in a downpour if the face fabric stays dry, e.g. the DWR is not overwhelmed - The clothing is usually a pretty active cut, compared to galoshes and ponchos. This tends to allow water in at the neck, cuffs, and waist over time. - The breathability is driven by positive vapor pressure, so it will get humid inside the jacket.
- ip26 7y agoOh, you also need to be warm enough to evaporate your sweat. If you are too cold in your jacket your sweat will condense.
- DubiousPusher 7y agoI backpack in the Pacific Northwest and have hiked for hours in pouring rain at temperatures of berween 40 and 80 degrees and have found a standard gortex jacket by Marmot to be totally acceptable for this task. On warm days I were just a base layer (the wickier the better) under the jacket with all the air vents open. I sweat a lot so I need good airflow. I imagine if you bike in similar conditions you'd need a better solution but aside from a lot of gimmicks I'm not sure what would be better.
- chrisseaton 7y ago> I backpack in the Pacific Northwest and have hiked for hours in pouring rain at temperatures of berween 40 and 80 degrees and have found a standard gortex jacket by Marmot to be totally acceptable for this task. Aren't you sweating inside the jacket anyway due to hiking? So you're wet inside whether you’re wearing a jacket or not? So what's the point in a waterproof jacket? I think it's best to just accept you're going to get wet, wear basic fabrics, and practice wet-dry drills.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- bryanmgreen 7y agoTheoretically, could a jacket made of a hard material (resistant to water for 50 years minimum) perforated with nano-particle size holes be both breathable and highly water-resistant?
- amluto 7y agoThe surface needs to be hydrophobic, too. Otherwise, when the outside gets soaked, holes will be blocked. Presumably it also needs to be thin so the holes aren’t too deep. At this point, you more or less have a textile. A piece of aluminum foil isn’t going to make a great jacket.
- snowwrestler 7y agoThis is basically what expanded PTFE membranes are. PTFE is hard, durably waterproof stuff; stretching it out creates the tiny holes that permit breathability.
- wiml 7y agoAs far as I know, that's what all the breathable fabrics are. GoreTex ís PTFE (teflon™) with microscopic pores, originally developed for uranium refining; PTFE is soft, so it's usually combined with a nylon shell. Tyvek comes in many varieties, one of which is a waterproof+breathable version; it's polyethylene fiber pressed into a porous felt-like sheet.
- et-al 7y agoI once undertook the task of searching for the mythical fabric that offered breathability and water-resistance. A big issue is that as your exertion increases, you sweat more and need more breathability, compared to when you're sitting around. In addition, breathability is hampered by the fabric's pores being clogged by dirt, body oils, and just the fabric wetting out. As such, most fabrics are treated with some DWR coating. But the DWR coating wears off over time and at-home treatments never seemed to match what came from the factory. Roughly a decade ago, eVent was supposed to be the wünderfabrik; and it did offer more breathability than Gore-Tex by omitting a PU layer. However the PU layer also prevented body oils from logging up the breathable membrane, so ultimate eVent jackets would stop being breathable if you didn't keep them clean. Polartec Neoshell was also a runner up, but it never caught on big time; I think due to durability issues. Right now, Gore-Tex Shakedry is the talk around town, but I haven't worn anything using it and stopped caring. The outdoor industry will always be selling folks a golden fleece. - - - Addendum: I am super glad about how breathability is now being addressed beyond rainshells and fleeces. Patagonia's Nano-Air and Arc'tery's Atom hoodies are two examples of light and breathable insulation layers that didn't exist 10 years ago. They're great for moderate exertion activities. If anyone wants to geek out more, I recommend reading: Mark Verber's What is Percent of Nakedness? - https://verber.com/mark/outdoors/stash/patagonia-testing.html https://verber.com/mark/outdoors/stash/patagonia-testing.htm... Andy Kirkpatrick's (formerly psycho vertical) writings; mainly focused on mountaineering. As such he has a lot of good advice for dressing for bad conditions - https://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles https://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles Andrew Skurka's Breathability: an explanation of its importance, mechanisms, and limitations - https://andrewskurka.com/breathability-its-importance-mechanisms-and-limitations/ https://andrewskurka.com/breathability-its-importance-mechan...
- gonzo41 7y agoThe design of the garment also comes into play in a big way. For things like hiking and working in the rain, Pit Zips are vital and allow a greater level of control than any magic fabric can offer.
- usrusr 7y agoOccasional Shakedry user here, that stuff is truly amazing. But, just as advertized, only in a very narrow usage profile, e.g. strict no backpacks rule (unless the bag fits inside). All the magic comes from the single trick of exposing the bare, delicate membrane as the outer layer. Usually there is a protective outer layer on top of the membrane that will inevitable get soaked and then it's game over for breathability, no matter how good the membrane underneath is. A backpack would ruin that unprotected membrane in no time and I don't even expect it to last very long even if just occasionally taken along for uncertain weather.
- Stratoscope 7y agoFor something completely different, here is the non-breathable Stephenson's Warmlite Vapor Barrier "No Sweat" Shirt: https://www.warmlite.com/product/no-sweat-shirt/ https://www.warmlite.com/product/no-sweat-shirt/ I bought one when I was into backpacking in the '70s but never really liked it that much. I would be curious if anyone knows anything about these and their "vapor barrier" idea. I do have fond memories of their 1974 catalog (NSFW PDF): https://www.outinunder.com/sites/default/files/Warmlite%20Catalog%201974.pdf https://www.outinunder.com/sites/default/files/Warmlite%20Ca...
- vineyardmike 7y agoWho makes a NSFW clothing catalogue?
- PeterStuer 7y agoNaturism was pretty SFW before the resurgence of prudism.
- Stratoscope 7y agoThe nude photos in Stephenson's catalog would have been NSFW in 1974 too. You wouldn't put one in a frame and keep it on your desk at work! Not even if your boss was one of the cool people you might invite over for a hot tub party.
- duskwuff 7y agoIt would seem that Warmlite did! The warning is completely justified. By way of example, a photo a few pages in features full frontal nudity with the caption "Nothing Is Better Than A Stephenson No-Sweat Shirt".
- Stratoscope 7y agoIn more recent years, maybe American Apparel? I won't dignify them with a link, but if you search for "american apparel nsfw" you will find an Esquire article about their ads. Regarding Stephenson's catalog, the '70s were a different time. If you had some friends over and you had a hot tub in the back yard, of course you would invite them to jump in, and of course they would take their clothes off first. It would be the polite thing to do. That kind of casual nudity was just a normal part of life in many circles back then. It didn't even imply anything sexual. The closest thing to a sexual reference in the catalog is a cute photo sequence on page 9 where the husband and wife company owners show how the sleeping bags can be zipped separately or together. It's pretty tame compared to AA's hyper-sexualized advertising. That's a whole different kind of NSFW. After taking another look through Stephenson's catalog, the other thing that strikes me is how much useful information there is. That guy loved to write! Sometimes he went on and on, but I would sure take that over too little information. The section on sleeping bag baffles is an education on its own.
- crca 7y agoIt’s fascinating that “breathability” appears to increase as mean humidity increases. In the end, the numbers are great until you accidentally wash your coat with detergent!
- vegardx 7y agoYou can re-activate the fabric by washing it with a special spray that you spray on and tumble dry it with.
- moksly 7y agoWeird that no Scandinavian brands made it on this list, do Americans not buy those? Stuff like the North Face is genuinely considered a pretty poor quality brand here in Denmark. Typically North American brands lose these types of tests by our consumer focused NGOs as well. My inherited 150 year old Icelandic wool sweater is more water/wind resistant than my Fjällraven Hard shell though. So maybe quality just isn’t really what it was anywhere.
- johnchristopher 7y ago> My inherited 150 year old Icelandic wool sweater Any picture :) ?
- starpilot 7y agoI've got an icelandic wool sweater I bought from a woman (who wove it) while biking around the island. Really warm, also gorgeous in a rustic way, but way too heavy and incompressible for climbing/backpacking. The warmth/weight ratio is poor relative to modern synthetic puffies like the Nano-Air.
- vegardx 7y agoThe biggest difference is that your wool sweater will keep you somewhat warm even if you're completely soaked. It's also has some nice fire resistant properties, but this might not be so useful for most people.
- starpilot 7y agoSynthetic insulation warms while wet as well, that's primarily why people choose it over down.
- senderista 7y agoFleece sucks for climbing/backpacking for the same reasons. Great for hiking/chilling though.
- hdrujvw-4579 7y ago
- jammygit 7y agoGenerally, it’s safest to assume that any waterproof material is non-breathable. If you exert yourself in them, you sweat and trap that sweat inside the membrane, often guaranteeing to soak yourself even if the rain lets up. Windbreakers with some basic spray on water resistance just work better (which is to say, not great). Best thing overall is to just wear synthetics that dry very quickly (pair with waterproof bag for your backpack contents - trash compactor bags are amazing for weight efficiency)
- yazaddaruvala 7y agoI’ve had a perfect experience with my Arc’teryx Alpha FL from 2013. The marketing said Goretex Active, and it worked like a charm. I’ve worn it on three hour bike rides, snowboarding all day, 5-10 hour winter and summer hikes. I took it to Iceland and Greenland (and was quite active in the rain) and it just worked. I live in Seattle and only maybe two days a year did I wish that it had pit vents. It’s expensive[0], but the technology works! [0] Given it’s lasted 6 years, and still looks good, I now categorize it as an investment rather than an expense. I love it so much I want to give them more money, so this spring I’ll be buying a new one.
- stereobit 7y agoA bit off topic but I’ll go up to Scotland in February and still need a hard shell. My old Mountain Hardwear won’t make the cut anymore. Any recommendations for good deals? I only need it for a week every other year for some Alpine climbing so I don’t want to spend crazy money but also don’t want to get soaked when the weather is bad.
- askvictor 7y agoI've just come to accept that I'll get a bit wet one way or another; either sweat or rain ingress through hood or cuffs (this will happen eventually as you'll need to stop for lunch or to put up shelter). Keeping warm is more important than keeping dry.
- chrisseaton 7y agoYes this is what I think - if you're outdoors and doing something you're going to be getting wet, inside and out. Might as well accept that and work with it (fast drying clothing, wet dry drills) rather than fight it.
- m12k 7y agoCombine this with measured water resistance, to help me find 'the most breathable material that will stand up to X minutes of rain', add data for 'crinkliness' and stretchability (even just your own qualitative scale), then add affiliate links to actual products that use these materials and you've got yourself a nice little side project to maybe generate a bit of passive income.
- sgt101 7y agoSo "just" three more experiments. How much would the kit for each experiment cost? And how long would each test last? Could be a big investment for a bit of passive income.
- Hello71 7y agobased on the sheer number of SEO hacking coupon sites and huge sponsorships for coupon extensions, I'm going to wager a guess that you could earn a significant amount of money if you could position yourself as the definitive source on outerwear information.
- fergie 7y agoAs somebody who spends most of their time on the Celtic and Nordic fringes, Im a big fan of non-breathable PU (fishermans) waterproofs. I think breathability is an overrated quality for waterproof fabrics. Zips and vents combined with waterproofness and robustness is the way to go.
- int_19h 7y agoAs somebody who lives in PNW, my take is the exact opposite: waterproofness is the overrated quality, because the most commonly used fabrics are way more waterproof than necessary to completely block out even extremely heavy rain. On the other hand, breathability means a lot less sweat on the move. The difference between e.g. classic Gore-Tex and NeoShell is night and day.
- andrewgleave 7y agoBuffalo Systems kit has always been good for me. Wear it properly (next to your skin) and even though it's not fully waterproof you will not get cold which is the main thing. Bring a dry top to put on when you've finished and done. Dries out really quickly and you can put it on wet without it feeling cold.
- PuffinBlue 7y agoI feel like this secret is being kept alive by a dwindling community unfortunately. I have a great Montane Extreme Jacket, similar to the Buffalo one but with a better hood and not a pullover smock. I had a Buffalo about 15 years ago too. This move to Gore-Tex et al reminds me of what happened after the invention of the trainer. Trainers (sneakers) are everywhere now, and they get more and more complex each year yet people get injured running in them just as easily. A small sommunity kept alive the idea of running in minimal shoes, zero drop, flat unpadded soles, and running like we did in the past. Similarly, Gore-Tex came along and now we're obsessed with shedding the water on the outer layer. The modern mantra is water must not penetrate under any circumstance. There's a time and a place for that but in those conditions a truly impermeable layer like a PU shell is better. And so there's just a few of us who know that it's not necessarily preventing all water ingress that's the goal - it's maintaining warmth, breathability, comfort and having material that will dry quickly. Maybe it's because of our climate in the UK but it's no accident Buffalo, Montane, Mountain Equipment and Rab (all UK based companies) make 'Pile and Pertex' colthing and now some exceptional Primaloft based synthetic shells - The Mountain Equipment Citadel and Fitaroy Jackets, and the Montane Prism are two I own and are every bit as good as Pile and Pertex but without the bulk. It's good to know there are a few of us out there keeping the wisdom alive!
- pbowyer 7y agoI'm in the UK too and it's been great to have so many local contributions in this thread. I'm an enthusiastic walker (rambler?) and am always looking for suitable clothing - not just for walking holidays, but for everyday, keeping warm, dry and comfortable in variable weather and rain (lots of it this Christmas!). Whether a stroll, hill climb, birdwatching or taking a dog for a walk, getting sweaty or wet is what I'm always aiming to avoid. > Maybe it's because of our climate in the UK I do wonder if our climate is a bit "different" when it comes to outdoor clothing. Are we more humid and damp than most of the USA and Europe? They do great gear, but it often seems to assume a different environment (the alps) or different climate (sun for X days, then rain for Y days). Gear for us, given the small range of temperature variations and fast changes in the weather, seems to have different requirements. Thanks for recommending EDZ in another comment. I like the performance of outdoor clothing but often don't want to look like an outdoor enthusiast (because I merely walk a lot, and also want to blend in in towns). Can you recommend any trousers that keep you dry(er) in showers, or dry quickly once wet? I got caught in a squall on Exmoor today and soaked through. Stayed warm in no small part thanks to a Trespass AT200 fleece (ridiculously cheap for the performance) but warmer legs would be nice. For torrential rain there's overtrousers, but I'm not a fan outside winter (too hot and sweaty).
- dzhiurgis 7y agoI’ve switched almost completely to breathable clothes over last couple of years. Huge fan of Icebreaker merino stuff (underwear and hoodies). Using breathable shorts from Kathmandu. Big problem for me is that most of the stuff is way overoptimized for hiking and trekking while I just wish something simple and socially acceptable. Also one thing I haven’t figured out is t-shirts. Sticking to cotton for now but do want something I can keep on for days or even a week.
- mhd 7y agoYes, "technical" clothing for regular use seems to be a unfilled niche. You either get stuff for trekking, or that awful "techwear" trend that makes you look like a ninja who's really into Nine Inch Nails, with a bit of tacticool prepper mixed in. Uniqlo has some "techy" fabrics that don't look too out of place, but a slightly better quality and slightly higher age average wouldn't hurt (skinny fits, friggin' 7/8 pants). I've experimented with Merino shirts and socks for traveling with carry on luggage, but they're just too damn fragile and develop small holes way too soon. Yes, maybe I didn't take care of them the right way, but not having to take care of them too much is pretty much the point...
- dzhiurgis 7y agoI agree merino doesn’t last long. Worst were Allbirds. Super comfy for light use, but wears out in like 6 months. “Techy” style is subtle tho. I wouldn’t mind a premium lot2046 line. You’d have to kill me to wear anything star wars. That is just dweeb. IMHO Some of normal stuff is just too normcore dad clothing. I guess agreement is wet need more of every tribe.
- EdwardDiego 7y agoI'm a big fan of the merino t-shirt I bought from Macpac, haven't had any wear issues yet, although I wouldn't wear it while hunting in dense bush - that said, when I'm hunting, I'm usually wearing a high viz polarfleece t-shirt, so it's a bit of a moot point.
- PuffinBlue 7y agoNot sure exactly where you are in the world but EDZ make excellent merino t-shirts that can be worn day to day. I have 3 of the short sleeve crews and about to get some of the polos. https://www.edzlayering.com/ https://www.edzlayering.com/
- freetime2 7y agoI highly recommend spending a bunch of money on a well-constructed waterproof shell. My last Gore-Tex jacket lasted 13 years before finally breaking down in one of the pit zips. And pretty much every time I put it on, I was really glad to have it for the comfort it provided in cold, wet, or windy conditions. You just need to be realistic about what a “breathable” shell can do. If you’re moving enough that you would be sweating without a shell, then of course adding a shell is just going to make the situation much worse. In practice this often means that I’ll be wearing just a thin base layer when I’m actually moving, and often prefer to get rained on than drenched in my own sweat. And then as soon as I stop and my body temperature starts to drop, the shell and extra thermal layers come out. To me breathability is less important than a number of other factors like hood design, size, weight, durability, looks, how it feels against bare skin, venting options, zippers, etc.
- chrisseaton 7y agoRight - waterproof layers are for when you are stationary only.
- arh68 7y agoWow, this actually confirms my thoughts about my Columbia Omni-Tech, that thing seems like the least breathable jacket I've ever owned. Good thing it has pit zips. It's like a cold rain jacket. There seems to be 2 distinct categories: some fabric is asymmetric when it comes to relative humidity, others stay constant (like Omni-Tech). The asymmetrics become more breathable as humidity increases. Schoeller WB-Formula starts off half as breathable as Omni-Tech at low humidity and at high humidity comes down to match. But you've also got Gore-Tex XCR, which is more breathable than O-T at even low humidity, and gets even more so as humidity increases. I've had a Columbia 3-in-1 with a softshell liner that I've really loved. It can take about ¼" of rain, but isn't quite as warm as a fleece. I washed the liner a bunch, but never washed the shell (still looks new, waterproof AFAIK). I just bought myself a Marmot 3-in-1 for Christmas (unaware of all this research). Shell is apparently Membrain, which is both more and less breathable than Omni-Tech (less when dry, more when humid). "Asymmetric" breathability fabrics, most->least breathable: Gore-Tex XCR, Entrant Dermizax, Gore-Tex, Membrain, Hydroseal, Sympatex, Conduit, Schoeller WB-Formula. All these are more breathable when humid (opposite probably not very useful). "Symmetric" breathability fabric, most->least breathable: Expanded PTFE, EVENT, Schoeller Dryskin Extreme, Entrant GII XT Laminate, Nextec, Lowe Alpine Triplepoint, Omni-Tech. The groups overlap, but symmetric fabrics are generally more breathable overall (especially when dry, but even still when humid). Interesting.
- tiku 7y agoI had an idea for a 3d printed layer that could vent on the shoulders and would be rain proof if you walk upright..
- specialist 7y agoWhat's a reasonable expectation for durability of these fabrics? My most recent hydrophobic jackets were Rab (6 years) and Mountain Hard Gear (2 years). While initially awesome, they've both eventually lost their hydrophobic properties. The fabric treatments (NikWax Tech Wash), fastidiously applied, don't work. Should I just plan on buying a new jacket after X hours of use?
- ip26 7y agoI'll note that I used to line dry hydrophobic jackets after washing, but that was actually a mistake. The warmth in the dryer somehow anneals the DWR, refreshing it. (This will no work forever, of course)
- eledumb 7y agoExactly why I love my lightweight extra large packable poncho. It's completely water proof, but it's got a shit ton of ventilation, I can wear exactly what I need to stay warm and if it starts raining, sleeting, snowing, etc. on with the poncho, I stay dry and warm, all of me stays dry, and not just my upper body. I've actually done trail running in my poncho, but it's a pain, frankly most people don't need all this "technology" to stay dry and warm. I use a cotton tee, a wool sweater and a cheap insulated jacket with pit zips, and a poncho. It works for anything down to about -20F, of course you still need to protect your legs for warmth, because the poncho protects them from the water. My poncho is so old it could vote, I don't even know who made it, I do remember it was cheap, but not flimsy, it has some body so that it won't act like it's still packed. I may not meet today's standard for packable, but eh, what's an extra couple of ounces in the scheme of things.
- xenocyon 7y agoAs a frugal person, I'm as concerned with durability as performance. Anecdotally, after trying cheaper membranes that disintegrated or lost their waterproof-ness after frequent use (daily bike commuting, being stuffed in a bag), I have come to prefer Gore-Tex for how long it lasts.