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Brilliant. Now let's force the governments to put in place the right incentives. How do we do that?

by perfunctory 7y ago

egdod 7y ago
Let’s wait to see if it actually works before we start threatening to put people in prison for not using it.
- rfrey 7y ago
  I’m pretty sure the proposal is actually for on-the-spot extra-judicial executions of anybody who even criticizes the idea. Or maybe it’s just a call for a bit of regulation, I dunno.
  - egdod 7y ago
    At the end of the day, every government regulation is enforced at the point of a gun.
    - mirimir 7y ago
      True. But most targets give up well before it comes to that.
  - sp332 7y ago
    "A bit of regulation" will still get you thrown in jail, exactly as egdod says.
zapnuk 7y ago
Start by proposing it to a goverment who is actually interested in facing cimate change
- hanniabu 7y ago
  Not sure why you're being downvoted. The US has a president that actively acts against such interests. He drops out of the Paris Agreement and has done tons of environmental protection rollbacks. One example: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/24/5-major-trump-climate-rollbacks-you-might-have-missed-in-2019.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/24/5-major-trump-climate-rollba... Just one example from there: > The new rules make it easier to take out protections for threatened animals and plants and allow federal agencies to conduct economic assessments when deciding whether to protect a species from things like construction projects in a critical habitat. The rules also remove tools used by scientists to predict future harm to species from climate change. As you can see, as with previous actions, he makes changes to benefit business because it's too difficult for businesses to thrive when they need to worry about the environment (paraphrasing of what he's actually said in the past).
nothrabannosir 7y ago
With a carbon tax. It will automatically make fossil fuels more expensive, while this device produces a fuel not subject to the tax.
- perfunctory 7y ago
  Carbon tax is a good idea. But it's not happening! Writing proposals, calling representatives, signing petitions and voting isn't helping. I mean, how do we actually make it happen?
  - dragontamer 7y ago
    > voting isn't helping Because the will of the people is in the other direction. At this point, its a matter of convincing the greater public of the evidence. People are stubborn and difficult to convince. And you need to convince roughly half of the voting population (maybe ~50-million people) before things happen in the USA. That's how democracy works. There's also a power-imbalance that gets somewhat political: how smaller states have 2 senators and therefore control the vote despite having a very small population. Convincing those people is more important, because their vote matters more than most people. 200,000 Wyoming residents have the voting power of 700,000 California residents, due to how Senators work.
    - Ericson2314 7y ago
      There is some bipartisan lobbying for a carbon tax. There is also bipartisan whinging, which is crazy. Just pair it with a dividend like Canada.
    - hanniabu 7y ago
      > And you need to convince roughly half of the voting population Not with gerrymandering, you'll effectively need much more. And then there's the fact that people are consistently voted in on a set of plans/promises that either are never followed through with or they do they opposite because they were just saying the things that get votes rather than what they actually intend to do. The system is broken, plain and simple, and it's not going to change because it benefits those with the ability to change it.

Brilliant. Now let's force the governments to put in place the right incentives. How do we do that?

egdod 7y ago

Let’s wait to see if it actually works before we start threatening to put people in prison for not using it.

rfrey 7y ago
I’m pretty sure the proposal is actually for on-the-spot extra-judicial executions of anybody who even criticizes the idea. Or maybe it’s just a call for a bit of regulation, I dunno.
- egdod 7y ago
  At the end of the day, every government regulation is enforced at the point of a gun.
  - mirimir 7y ago
    True. But most targets give up well before it comes to that.
- sp332 7y ago
  "A bit of regulation" will still get you thrown in jail, exactly as egdod says.

zapnuk 7y ago

Start by proposing it to a goverment who is actually interested in facing cimate change

hanniabu 7y ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted. The US has a president that actively acts against such interests. He drops out of the Paris Agreement and has done tons of environmental protection rollbacks. One example: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/24/5-major-trump-climate-rollbacks-you-might-have-missed-in-2019.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/24/5-major-trump-climate-rollba... Just one example from there: > The new rules make it easier to take out protections for threatened animals and plants and allow federal agencies to conduct economic assessments when deciding whether to protect a species from things like construction projects in a critical habitat. The rules also remove tools used by scientists to predict future harm to species from climate change. As you can see, as with previous actions, he makes changes to benefit business because it's too difficult for businesses to thrive when they need to worry about the environment (paraphrasing of what he's actually said in the past).

nothrabannosir 7y ago

With a carbon tax. It will automatically make fossil fuels more expensive, while this device produces a fuel not subject to the tax.

perfunctory 7y ago
Carbon tax is a good idea. But it's not happening! Writing proposals, calling representatives, signing petitions and voting isn't helping. I mean, how do we actually make it happen?
- dragontamer 7y ago
  > voting isn't helping Because the will of the people is in the other direction. At this point, its a matter of convincing the greater public of the evidence. People are stubborn and difficult to convince. And you need to convince roughly half of the voting population (maybe ~50-million people) before things happen in the USA. That's how democracy works. There's also a power-imbalance that gets somewhat political: how smaller states have 2 senators and therefore control the vote despite having a very small population. Convincing those people is more important, because their vote matters more than most people. 200,000 Wyoming residents have the voting power of 700,000 California residents, due to how Senators work.
  - Ericson2314 7y ago
    There is some bipartisan lobbying for a carbon tax. There is also bipartisan whinging, which is crazy. Just pair it with a dividend like Canada.
  - hanniabu 7y ago
    > And you need to convince roughly half of the voting population Not with gerrymandering, you'll effectively need much more. And then there's the fact that people are consistently voted in on a set of plans/promises that either are never followed through with or they do they opposite because they were just saying the things that get votes rather than what they actually intend to do. The system is broken, plain and simple, and it's not going to change because it benefits those with the ability to change it.