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You'd better be a Mother Russia citizen and have a way to transfer funds there since there's no extradition. Otherwise they'll spend 100X your fraud to get you.

You'd better be a Mother Russia citizen and have a way to transfer funds there since there's no extradition. Otherwise they'll spend 100X your fraud to get you. But I guess, years pass by the time a human looks at it

H8crilA 7y ago
Transferring funds is easy, use Monero or just ship some gold in small pieces. And IRS is notably underfunded: https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/irsac-warns-about-irs-underfunding https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/irsac-warns-about-irs-u... My bet is that this type of activity will expand rather than contract.
- m11a 7y ago
  I don't think you could buy $100M of Monero, or even Bitcoin, quickly without being noticed or causing market swings. There's not enough liquidity. And even if you could you'd have some issue cashing out that cryptocurrency into useful fiat afterwards. And eventually, assuming you were able to cash out $100M over some time, it wouldn't be worth $100M by the time you cashed it out.
  - rdl 7y ago
    You could buy $100m in bitcoin over a few weeks without causing >5% move in the price. (not as a single market order, obviously). Probably not even a 1% move in the price over 2 weeks.
    - m11a 7y ago
      Possibly. But you'd have to be using the larger, liquid exchanges with fiat support for these amounts. Surely you'd hit even the ID verified limits and they'd look into you manually if you're suddenly moving millions on their platform?
      - Hydraulix989 7y ago
        I remember seeing limits for withdrawing but not depositing.
  - onetimemanytime 7y ago
    1.File fraudulent tax return 2. IRS Computer doesn't catch it (at least in real time) and sends you $12.21 million in refunds. In fact, they might not catch it for years. 3. That is YOUR money as far as Chase, BOFA or whatever bank is concerned. Now transfers might the problem since transferring millions to Russia or any country will get the three-letter agencies talking to each other (after the bank files suspicious activity reports.) What...he got a $12.21 Million in tax refunds...???
    - Hydraulix989 7y ago
      Do smaller banks/credit unions tend to file these reports? My guess is that only Chase, Bank of America, etc. do this.
      - gamblor956 7y ago
        All transfers over $9999.99 are reported to the federal government. That includes multiple transfers made within the same 30 day period that in the aggregate would exceed $9999.99.
        Hydraulix989 7y ago
        Yes, and what you are describing is another type of report that is distinct from a “suspicious activity report”. The limit report you described is a hard threshold requirement. This is not the same report as the “suspicious activity report.” As you know, the suspicious activity report is completely subject to the bank’s discretion.
        onetimemanytime 7y ago
        do they report suspicious transfers--or all transfers around $10k as a matter of routine?
        Hydraulix989 7y ago
        The latter is required; the former is also “required” but more nebulous (it’s only a problem if there is some incident and then during an investigation, look back and it turns out the bank didn’t file the report, creating a convenient scapegoat in an otherwise difficult case).
  - gogopuppygogo 7y ago
    There are brokers for larger sums. I haven’t used them but I’ve heard good things about: https://cumberland.io/ https://cumberland.io/ Last I heard, you can buy millions of dollars at a time if you can pass a KYC.
brianwawok 7y ago
It took 100m of fraud to get caught. Would they have gotten away with 1m?
- m11a 7y ago
  Possible. Tax agencies open up random investigations, as well, all the time. They can open an investigation 5-10 years back, depending on type of return, country, etc. There's a chance they could've had such a random investigation and been caught. There's also a chance no investigation would be opened and they could've gotten away with it. I don't know why they pushed it so hard, though. At that point you're begging for a targeted investigation.
  - shiftpgdn 7y ago
    The IRS generally will not go back more than 3 years, 6 years in extreme cases.
    - londons_explore 7y ago
      Unless they've already found something suspicious, in which case for certain things they can go back forever to rack up the criminal charges. That's part of why it's important to destroy documents when you are legally able to. If you keep those documents longer, they are a risk to you in case of a "every tax return ever" investigation. If all evidence has gone, as you were legally allowed to do, there is very little chance they'll convict you for that stuff. Even if you aren't a criminal, some innocuous things you do today might become illegal in the future as tax law is refined through case law.
      - hawaiianbrah 7y ago
        Are you suggesting that things that are legal now, subsequently deemed illegal in the future, could then be retroactively brought against you? That sounds... incorrect.
        7y ago

H8crilA 7y ago

Transferring funds is easy, use Monero or just ship some gold in small pieces. And IRS is notably underfunded: https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/irsac-warns-about-irs-underfunding https://www.accountingtoday.com/news/irsac-warns-about-irs-u... My bet is that this type of activity will expand rather than contract.

m11a 7y ago
I don't think you could buy $100M of Monero, or even Bitcoin, quickly without being noticed or causing market swings. There's not enough liquidity. And even if you could you'd have some issue cashing out that cryptocurrency into useful fiat afterwards. And eventually, assuming you were able to cash out $100M over some time, it wouldn't be worth $100M by the time you cashed it out.
- rdl 7y ago
  You could buy $100m in bitcoin over a few weeks without causing >5% move in the price. (not as a single market order, obviously). Probably not even a 1% move in the price over 2 weeks.
  - m11a 7y ago
    Possibly. But you'd have to be using the larger, liquid exchanges with fiat support for these amounts. Surely you'd hit even the ID verified limits and they'd look into you manually if you're suddenly moving millions on their platform?
    - Hydraulix989 7y ago
      I remember seeing limits for withdrawing but not depositing.
- onetimemanytime 7y ago
  1.File fraudulent tax return 2. IRS Computer doesn't catch it (at least in real time) and sends you $12.21 million in refunds. In fact, they might not catch it for years. 3. That is YOUR money as far as Chase, BOFA or whatever bank is concerned. Now transfers might the problem since transferring millions to Russia or any country will get the three-letter agencies talking to each other (after the bank files suspicious activity reports.) What...he got a $12.21 Million in tax refunds...???
  - Hydraulix989 7y ago
    Do smaller banks/credit unions tend to file these reports? My guess is that only Chase, Bank of America, etc. do this.
    - gamblor956 7y ago
      All transfers over $9999.99 are reported to the federal government. That includes multiple transfers made within the same 30 day period that in the aggregate would exceed $9999.99.
      - Hydraulix989 7y ago
        Yes, and what you are describing is another type of report that is distinct from a “suspicious activity report”. The limit report you described is a hard threshold requirement. This is not the same report as the “suspicious activity report.” As you know, the suspicious activity report is completely subject to the bank’s discretion.
      - onetimemanytime 7y ago
        do they report suspicious transfers--or all transfers around $10k as a matter of routine?
        Hydraulix989 7y ago
        The latter is required; the former is also “required” but more nebulous (it’s only a problem if there is some incident and then during an investigation, look back and it turns out the bank didn’t file the report, creating a convenient scapegoat in an otherwise difficult case).
- gogopuppygogo 7y ago
  There are brokers for larger sums. I haven’t used them but I’ve heard good things about: https://cumberland.io/ https://cumberland.io/ Last I heard, you can buy millions of dollars at a time if you can pass a KYC.

brianwawok 7y ago

It took 100m of fraud to get caught. Would they have gotten away with 1m?

m11a 7y ago
Possible. Tax agencies open up random investigations, as well, all the time. They can open an investigation 5-10 years back, depending on type of return, country, etc. There's a chance they could've had such a random investigation and been caught. There's also a chance no investigation would be opened and they could've gotten away with it. I don't know why they pushed it so hard, though. At that point you're begging for a targeted investigation.
- shiftpgdn 7y ago
  The IRS generally will not go back more than 3 years, 6 years in extreme cases.
  - londons_explore 7y ago
    Unless they've already found something suspicious, in which case for certain things they can go back forever to rack up the criminal charges. That's part of why it's important to destroy documents when you are legally able to. If you keep those documents longer, they are a risk to you in case of a "every tax return ever" investigation. If all evidence has gone, as you were legally allowed to do, there is very little chance they'll convict you for that stuff. Even if you aren't a criminal, some innocuous things you do today might become illegal in the future as tax law is refined through case law.
    - hawaiianbrah 7y ago
      Are you suggesting that things that are legal now, subsequently deemed illegal in the future, could then be retroactively brought against you? That sounds... incorrect.
      - 7y ago