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Russia 'successfully tests' its unplugged internet

GhettoMaestro 7y ago
Too bad it’s only a test.
- SiempreViernes 7y ago
  I think most of us don't want to play global thermonuclear war, and view all steps toward the disconnected and adverserial world that will run that game in a very dim light.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't post nationalistic flamebait to HN. No snarky one-liners either. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you've been breaking the site guidelines badly and repeatedly lately. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21868444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21868444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21853510 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21853510 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21864399 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21864399 If you keep doing this we're going to have to ban you again. I'd rather not, because you've also posted some good comments. Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the spirit of this site more to heart? We're trying to have at least one place on the internet that isn't torn apart and degraded by the usual snark and aggression. If you agree that that's worth having, I'm sure you'll see how we need everyone to do their part to keep it that way.
  - GhettoMaestro 7y ago
    Ban me. Do it, you royal faggot. Bonus points: you linked the same URL twice, you dummy. These guidelines as you selectively enforce them are a motherfucking joke and the entire site knows it. Also I was never banned, you truth-twisting faggot. Fuck off and die loser.
    - dang 7y ago
      > you linked the same URL twice, you dummy Fixed, thanks.
  - gjs278 7y ago
    his reply to you is entirely correct. stop being so condescending.
buboard 7y ago
Seeing how the globalnet has become a front for globalized surveillance, disconnected subnets are actually a welcome development.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  They are a welcome development for governments who'll be able to execute tighter control. I don't think that they're a welcome development for citizens, even for those who do not really care about politics. Want to play World of Warcraft today like you always did? Too bad, servers are in France. Want to learn some web development? Too bad, MDN is not mirrored.
  - DaiPlusPlus 7y ago
    I’m hoping Elon’s StarLink takes off.
    - duhast 7y ago
      StarLink will be blocked in countries like China or Russia or they will have to follow their law. Thought experiment: Can you imagine Russian satcom provider providing Internet service to US based customers in violation of the US law? Rarely is technology a sole answer to social or political problem.
out_of_protocol 7y ago
No actual unplugging this time
- SiempreViernes 7y ago
  Very unclear what they actually did at all.
sys_64738 7y ago
If they did keep Russian users inside then would they allow external user in also? I'd be concerned we'd be missing out on a lot of Russian content.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  This is a big question for sure. Especially for the technical content. There are a lot of really talented software engineers that come out of Russia, among others.
- aasasd 7y ago
  The government here is less bothered by Russians reading something foreign than by them writing something not too happy. Mostly in Russian language, but whatever. You missing out on some content is collateral damage, and that's not the government's problem. After all, there's government-approved content, and that should be enough.
- Avamander 7y ago
  Though we'd also see a drop in cyber attacks and malware.
azangru 7y ago
> Details of what the test involved were vague So we don’t know what exactly they tested. Why is this news, let alone an international one? Also, as far as I understand, what the Russians were officially saying was that they were developing fallback systems for the event if, in another bout of sanctions, Russia gets disconnected from the global internet. Which, given their standing with the international community, may be a reasonable thing to do. But the journalists present this story as Russia's voluntary step towards isolating itself from the global internet. I am not sure why.
- DaiPlusPlus 7y ago
  Power consolidation. The Internet is currently the best way to get access to honest, quality journalism - which is probably the biggest threat to Putin, et cetera. I believe Putin wants to undo glasnost.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - ScottFree 7y ago
    > The Internet is currently the best way to get access to honest, quality journalism Honest, quality journalism is a fantasy. It never existed. Even Benjamin Franklin used his newspaper to influence elections by slandering his political rivals. Not to mention fake news[0]. [0]: https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/02/even-ben-franklin-used-fake-news/ https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/02/even-ben-frankli...
    - 52-6F-62 7y ago
      That’s a gross generalization if I ever heard one. Both exist.
      - ScottFree 7y ago
        Your faith in your religion is touching. You keep believing, no matter the evidence.
madiathomas 7y ago
It was the next logical step for Russia after they built their own GPS and their alternative to the World Bank, the BRICS bank. Their biggest enemy has proven that they cannot be trusted and they are the ones who invented the Internet. Anytime they have a disagreement with a nation, they take their ball and go home. Like what they were doing with Huawei. I won't be surprised if China and India are working on the same kind of project. This world needs an alternative to anything built by the USA. That way superpowers will have to go to the negotiation table on an equal footing. We don't want one bully. We need at least 5 bullies.
- rb808 7y ago
  Of course Russia has had its own version of GPS for decades. Those ICBMs need some way to find their destination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS World Bank has never been important to Russia. You're right the US is dominating financial world right now which most of the world hates and its inevitable for something else to compete.
  - Nasrudith 7y ago
    Really the world bank's role is to be the scapegoat for fiscal misrule as the lender of last resort. They may or may not be "fair" (a subjective standard) and there are legitimate things to disagree with such as assignment of debts from previous regimes but crucially they lack the power to do much. They are judges without ballifs or executioners. They wield no force but saying no to loans and telling others what they think. If the countries could sustain themselves without credit from them then they have no need to be involved. The worst is essentially snarky comments pointing out that the current management goes against orthodoxy/still hasn't paid them back from 1977. If the country succeeds despite going against their judgement then they just look silly until either the world bank revises their conventional wisdom or they get to say "told ya so!" when the shoe drops. Austerity may do worse than an open credit pipeline in terms of growth and human impact but there are no guarantees that the creditor wouldn't mess that up as well and solvency is required to function in their role. While nice they literally can't be an infinite credit that never needs paid back fountain.
  - 7y ago
mrtksn 7y ago
How much Facebook and other tech giants will be affected by a fragmented internet? Is FB still a $600B company if they are prevalent only in the USA, UK and Canada? I wonder if this trend of closed borders limited information circulation could lead to the diminishing of companies that depend on the network effect and rise of the companies with hard tech.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  I suspect yes to the first if widespread enough in GDP (frankly in the grand scheme of things they matter less than Italy) and a hard no to the second. There is no reason to think that "hard tech" (assuming you mean more physical hardware) would benefit as a field they aren't really competitors even in terms of sucking up talent. Isolation wouldn't give them an edge there. Second as fragments would call for reinventing the wheel locally or possibly copying it to serve an insular market. We have already seen this with Cuban mechanics. They didn't become "the Detroit of the third world" producing cheaper cars for other nations, or even a divergent tech path for transit that was better in some way. They just essentially practiced at the art of antique automobile necromancy. Small players with adjacent bigger markets can innovate and scale up. Small players in small markets stagnate. The "small and local serves you better" is more meme than fact. People really want their parochial corner to be just as good but it hasn't worked out that way and stays small for several good reasons, and "choice" isn't one of them.
- maxmalysh 7y ago
  Facebook and Amazon _never_ penetrated Russian market. Russian companies (e.g. Yandex, VK) dominate in their respective domestic niches. Yandex even bought out Uber's operations here. Same for China. It has always been that way.
ivrrimum 7y ago
I think this is more to do with Russian tech sector trying to push their products, instead of Western ones. Uber - Yandex(russian alternative) etc.
omneity 7y ago
What infrastructure needs to be replicated "locally" for a country to unplug itself yet still have a functioning Internet simulacrum?
- Scarbutt 7y ago
  Nothing that they don't already have in place with some configuration adjustments. The Internet is just a lot of interconnected routers.
  - omneity 7y ago
    I'm thinking BGP, DNS, IP subnets allocations and all the low level stuff. Also SSL authorities etc. I'm sure there's a lot of stuff you'd need to roll, I bet it would make for an interesting article :D
    - branzo 7y ago
      +1!
Merrill 7y ago
How do they handle corporate intranets? Normally I'd expect Globocorp to configure its intranet with, for example, a separate AS each for Germany and Russia. But the AS in Germany may be connected to the Russia AS via a 155 Mb/s leased line from Berlin to St Petersburg with BGP routers. The German AS may also connect via a corporate firewall to a public ISP in Germany, and the Russian AS to a public ISP in Russia. It is theoretically possible, therefore for a user on a public ISP to connect via Globocorp's intranet to a public ISP web site in Germany. Is there some technical or administrative requirement to prevent transit via corporate intranets?
- dullgiulio 7y ago
  I guess they would simply cut it in half by disconnecting the Russian ISP to the German one. Even VPNs stop being useful if all connections to the outside are severed.
  - Merrill 7y ago
    Disconnecting the Russian ISP to the German one doesn't disconnect the leased line internal to Globocorps intranet which connects the Gobalcorp intranets in Russia and Germany.
  - kitteh 7y ago
    They have the ability to redirect traffic to government controlled devices that isps have to support (they sometimes have nice DNS ptrs like DPI in them). The isps have to speak bgp to the govt boxes and they can announce large swaths of IP space to be redirected.
- stephen_g 7y ago
  It would be very unlikely that a company would publish that kind of route (it really should be filtered out) or allow traffic from outside the network to route through it. Unless they are intending to provide transit, the only routes they would announce to peers in either country would be to their own network.
altmind 7y ago
Rarely mentioned, but Russia also tested the security of their (mobile signal networks) SS7 and Diameter systems Dec 16-17. It never fails to amaze me how little attention is paid to these systems that can track, intercept and hijack the comms of mobile phone users of any country, internationally.
- baybal2 7y ago
  Maybe because it is what they themselves were successful in pwning in the West? It is a long running rumor in Russian internet that Russian spies managed to tap UK politician phones with fake roaming requests in 2016.
  - vbezhenar 7y ago
    The question is, why UK politicians didn't use encryption which is available to ordinary people? Like Signal or even Whatsapp.
    - baybal2 7y ago
      Using encrypted VOIP will not do anything about SS7 hacks, as it will be your voice calls and SMSes that get rerouted, and remotely MIMed
      - mycall 7y ago
        You did answer, MITM doesn't work for Signal and WhatsApp, correct?
        int_19h 7y ago
        You could MITM Signal if you control the cell towers on either end. It would be visible, because the security number would change. But in my experience helping people set it up, very few users understand what those numbers are for, and what it means when they change. Most just mark them as verified immediately.
- 7y ago
arkanciscan 7y ago
If Russia gets cut off from the rest of the Internet the camgirl site industry may never recover!
magwa101 7y ago
Starlink will be a total game changer when it goes global.
- petethepig 7y ago
  I don't know about that. Nothing stops them from banning the sales of the ground station equipment.
  - Avamander 7y ago
    It's probably not that difficult to manufacture and there will be a black market for the tech.
    - romwell 7y ago
      The situation when the Internet is a black market thing is a huge victory for the Russian authoritarian state. They can afford to have 15% of the population with access to information and what not on the black market. The course of the country will be dictated by the beliefs of the other 85%, which will all buy into the 1000s of kaleidoscopic realities readily manufactured by Surkov & Co, and will all support every single action of the government.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
0x38B 7y ago
Commentary about the exercises from Russian Telegram channel ЗаТелеком (Following Telecom) [1]. Found through link on Meduza.io Google Translate with some manual editing for clarity by me. 1: https://t.me/zatelecom https://t.me/zatelecom # 1: https://t.me/zatelecom/13046 https://t.me/zatelecom/13046 "I got and decoded some materials from today's meeting of the Ministry of Digital Affairs on the exercises. Something tells me either a closed regime or not closed regime will be announced, but we won’t be able to get access either way. So, feed on some rumors. Let it be rumors from me. After [sunglasses] are my additions, probably mocking, will always follow. Based on what I heard and the slides, I can draw two additional conclusions: the Internet is impossible to understand and nobody understands what needs testing; ️ THEY'RE CONFUSING the law “on sustainable Runet” and the law “on critical objects of information infrastructure”. These are different laws, each living in its own sandbox, this confusion has been going on since the very beginning of the draft law “on a stable Runet” ️️️ Some slides (for some reason labeled Positive Technologies): ⏰ On December 16 and 17, exercise scenarios were worked out to ensure the stability and integrity of mobile radiotelephone communications for the SS7 and Diameter protocols All four federal mobile operators participated in the exercises. As part of the exercises, 18 attack scenarios were worked out for each operator - 12 through signal networks 2/3 of the SS7 generation and 6 through signal networks Diameter ️ The attacker was able to successfully carry out 62.5% of attacks through SS7 and 50% through DIameter The average attack detection time was about 2-3 minutes During the exercise, all scenarios were completed in full. Testing out the scenarios for each operator was about 6 hours. On average, working out one scenario took about 20 minutes. [sunglasses] Grains of corn fried by each curator were eaten about 800 grams each. Drunk 24 liters of coffee. 46.5 kg of cookies consumed LEARNING RECOMMENDATIONS To increase the effectiveness of warning, detecting and blocking attacks through signaling networks on the side of the telecom operator, it is necessary to provide: 1️⃣ Attack detection tools through the SS7 and Diameter signaling networks, which will allow timely detection of attacks on individual mobile subscribers and the operator’s infrastructure 2️⃣ Telecommunication equipment settings that prohibit signaling messages that are not used to establish communications between operators, but can be used to conduct attacks on networks of telecom operators 3️⃣ Procedures and security tools that allow you to quickly block ataui through signal networks 4️⃣ Periodic external signaling network security audits 5️⃣ Leave the market if points 1-4 were as unexpected for the operator as for representatives of the Ministry of Digital CONCLUSIONS ON THE RESULTS OF THE EXERCISES In the Russian Federation, it is necessary to create a regulatory framework and a unified system for collecting and analytically processing information about attacks through signaling networks on the infrastructure and subscribers of mobile telecom operators, as well as connecting it to the State SOPKA [2/3 slide picture from 4 positions OPERATORS -> UNIFIED SYSTEM -> GASOPOK] [sunglasses] Also in the Russian Federation, it is necessary to create a regulatory framework, to create a unified system for collecting and analytically processing information about attacks on WordPress and PHPNuke, as well as connecting it to GosSOPKA [sunglasses] Also in the Russian Federation, it is necessary to create a regulatory framework to create a unified system for collecting and analytical processing of information about attacks on active switches, as well as connecting it to the State SOPKA [sunglasses] Also in the Russian Federation, it is necessary to create a regulatory framework, to create a unified system for collecting and analytical processing of information about viruses sent to e-mail boxes, as well as connecting it to GosSOPKA" # 2: https://t.me/zatelecom/13053 https://t.me/zatelecom/13053 "About yesterday's "exercises." Again. Well, because in the morning the calls started again and the cart was breaking. Let me write here once, so I don't have to get up six times. 1. These were no "exercises." The circus that Sokolov arranged in the Ministry of Socks [Ministry of Digital Development, Communications and Mass Media of the Russian Federation ~Editor] is at most an "interagency meeting." Any military man will tell you that "Exercises are combat training activities, where the troops solve tasks on the ground in conditions that are closest to combat, large-scale comprehensive training operations." And in the ministry they held a MEETING. That's all. 2. Hysterical squirrels rush about the Internet with stories that "everything broke !!! aaaa !!!". Say hello to them. In fact, of course, the two dozen morons sitting in the office could not break anything. First of all, who would let them, the morons, onto real networks? 3. The proof that all those who gathered for the “exercises” are first-class morons was that when they were talking nonsense about the “18 attack scenarios”, nobody laughed. Everyone sat with serious faces and nodded their heads. I'll explain: "attacks through the SS-7 protocol" is about telephony. Not about the Internet. SS-7 (aka OKS-7) is, roughly speaking, the protocol by which signaling data for dialing is transmitted. The fact that we have not heard for a hundred thousand years that someone “broke the phone number” tells us that the telephone operators are working and the holes (yes, there were holes) were closed. Well, the figure of 62.5% of successful attacks, firstly, tells us that in two-thirds of the calls we could not get through, and secondly - how, tell me, from 12 attacks the figure could be 62.5%? ? Is this a successful attack in 7.5 cases out of 12? Further, Diameter protocol is likewise not related to the Internet. Google what Diameter is already. Hint: This is a service authorization-authentication-accounting protocol that is used in IMS networks. This applies to mobile communications and IP telephony. To IP-telephony, in short. But not to the internet. Well, half of the successful attacks tell us that these numbers were obtained "at a training ground", which was set up by bungling dumbasses, or simply thought up. 4. I want to remind you that there is no "sovereign runet". It was not built. And the forecast for the "construction" of this crap is 5 years, minimum. Look: for the first year they will only work on a sub-law and write a technical assignment. Then for two more years they will work out the engineering solution. Which will become obsolete exactly at the beginning of implementation. And then they will implement it for another three years - Rostelecom only has seven macro-regions and 79 branches. Just to bring equipment to everyone is already an impossible task for assholes from the offices. And it, equipment, also needs to be installed, commissioning, acceptance, testing, signing of acts ... Well, trust me - RTK can delay projects for decades ... I can say exactly the same thing about other "very large operators" . And it didn’t get into a fucking little thing - imagine a box designed by the morons from the offices. Therefore, I repeat, any failures on the networks can be justified by anything, but not by “sovereign runet”. Enough hysteria!"
SimplePotato 7y ago
Are we stepping in the era of disconnected world where every nation will write their own fake history... Are we stepping into the new age communism?
- x3n0ph3n3 7y ago
  I think "authoritarianism" is more apt than "communism" in describing the relationship between the government and the people rather than an economic model.
- int_19h 7y ago
  "Already history has in a sense ceased to exist, ie. there is no such thing as a history of our own times which could be universally accepted, and the exact sciences are endangered as soon as military necessity ceases to keep people up to the mark. Hitler can say that the Jews started the war, and if he survives that will become official history. He can’t say that two and two are five, because for the purposes of, say, ballistics they have to make four. But if the sort of world that I am afraid of arrives, a world of two or three great superstates which are unable to conquer one another, two and two could become five if the fuhrer wished it. That, so far as I can see, is the direction in which we are actually moving, though, of course, the process is reversible." George Orwell, 1944
ivhilaire 7y ago
Russia is a kleptocracy and all these 'tests' are just another way to steal money. Kleptocratic billionaires can not keep being billionaires without such 'projects'.
- 8bitsrule 7y ago
  Did you ever wonder where those former Soviet citizens - now oligarchs - picked up their capitalist skills?
  - ivhilaire 7y ago
    They didn't. No selling and multiplying. Only taking and dividing.
tus88 7y ago
> "Increasingly, authoritarian countries which want to control what citizens see are looking at what Iran and China have already done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_Uni...
shellehs 7y ago
Russia unplugged the internet and took a look at China.
c-smile 7y ago
Not sure why is this such a big deal. I can imagine that US will also disconnect itself if hostile access to critical infrastructure is at stake. China is permanently semi-connected for that matter.
- pergadad 7y ago
  But it's not about critical infrastructure, it's about control over information coming in and going out.
Jyaif 7y ago
I believe Eric Schmidt was the first to predict this: https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/eric-schmidt-internet-will-split-in-two-2028-china-2018-9 https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/eric-schmidt-internet-will...
terrycody 7y ago
China:naive boy
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
mirimir 7y ago
> "Increasingly, authoritarian countries which want to control what citizens see are looking at what Iran and China have already done. The US does the same. Indeed, the US takes down stuff globally, often by pwning a site's primary DNS servers. But of course, they claim that they are only taking down "illegal" sites. But there's rarely (if ever) any sort of due process. Edit: This is a well known fact. The FBI even brags about it, from time to time. But if any y'all want to claim that it's not, or is somehow distinguishable, please do share. Edit: For example, the FBI took down a news site, which was arguably protected by the Constitution: https://www.deepdotweb.com/ https://www.deepdotweb.com/ ... and you can see it through early 2019 here: https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://deepdotweb.com https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://deepdotweb.com
shmerl 7y ago
Quasi-fascist regime wants to be ready to silence looming protests.
duelingjello 7y ago
Rising balkanization, tariff wars, sanctions, isolationism and nationalism sets the table for future ”dark ages”-like declines and world wars. Sanctions, isolation and tariffs, each like eye-for-an-eye, makes the whole world “blind.” Overall, it’s another nail in the coffin of the mythology of perpetual progress, showcasing eras of decay, retreat, chaos, division and regression. Some points of the existing order need to be adjusted before corruption, greed, hate and narcissism scatter us like dust into the wind.
think29 7y ago
Think you can't dunk? Think again… http://bit.ly/2lYnwSI http://bit.ly/2lYnwSI
bookofjoe 7y ago
Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong IRL
woodandsteel 7y ago
For years Putin's defenders here at HN would talk about the great benefits he was bringing the country. Interesting how in the last year or so they have pretty much given up pushing that idea.

Too bad it’s only a test.

SiempreViernes 7y ago
I think most of us don't want to play global thermonuclear war, and view all steps toward the disconnected and adverserial world that will run that game in a very dim light.
dang 7y ago
Please don't post nationalistic flamebait to HN. No snarky one-liners either. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you've been breaking the site guidelines badly and repeatedly lately. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21868444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21868444 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21853510 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21853510 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21864399 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21864399 If you keep doing this we're going to have to ban you again. I'd rather not, because you've also posted some good comments. Would you mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the spirit of this site more to heart? We're trying to have at least one place on the internet that isn't torn apart and degraded by the usual snark and aggression. If you agree that that's worth having, I'm sure you'll see how we need everyone to do their part to keep it that way.
- GhettoMaestro 7y ago
  Ban me. Do it, you royal faggot. Bonus points: you linked the same URL twice, you dummy. These guidelines as you selectively enforce them are a motherfucking joke and the entire site knows it. Also I was never banned, you truth-twisting faggot. Fuck off and die loser.
  - dang 7y ago
    > you linked the same URL twice, you dummy Fixed, thanks.
- gjs278 7y ago
  his reply to you is entirely correct. stop being so condescending.

Seeing how the globalnet has become a front for globalized surveillance, disconnected subnets are actually a welcome development.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
vbezhenar 7y ago
They are a welcome development for governments who'll be able to execute tighter control. I don't think that they're a welcome development for citizens, even for those who do not really care about politics. Want to play World of Warcraft today like you always did? Too bad, servers are in France. Want to learn some web development? Too bad, MDN is not mirrored.
- DaiPlusPlus 7y ago
  I’m hoping Elon’s StarLink takes off.
  - duhast 7y ago
    StarLink will be blocked in countries like China or Russia or they will have to follow their law. Thought experiment: Can you imagine Russian satcom provider providing Internet service to US based customers in violation of the US law? Rarely is technology a sole answer to social or political problem.

out_of_protocol 7y ago

No actual unplugging this time

SiempreViernes 7y ago
Very unclear what they actually did at all.

sys_64738 7y ago

If they did keep Russian users inside then would they allow external user in also? I'd be concerned we'd be missing out on a lot of Russian content.

52-6F-62 7y ago
This is a big question for sure. Especially for the technical content. There are a lot of really talented software engineers that come out of Russia, among others.
aasasd 7y ago
The government here is less bothered by Russians reading something foreign than by them writing something not too happy. Mostly in Russian language, but whatever. You missing out on some content is collateral damage, and that's not the government's problem. After all, there's government-approved content, and that should be enough.
Avamander 7y ago
Though we'd also see a drop in cyber attacks and malware.

azangru 7y ago

> Details of what the test involved were vague So we don’t know what exactly they tested. Why is this news, let alone an international one? Also, as far as I understand, what the Russians were officially saying was that they were developing fallback systems for the event if, in another bout of sanctions, Russia gets disconnected from the global internet. Which, given their standing with the international community, may be a reasonable thing to do. But the journalists present this story as Russia's voluntary step towards isolating itself from the global internet. I am not sure why.

DaiPlusPlus 7y ago
Power consolidation. The Internet is currently the best way to get access to honest, quality journalism - which is probably the biggest threat to Putin, et cetera. I believe Putin wants to undo glasnost.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- ScottFree 7y ago
  > The Internet is currently the best way to get access to honest, quality journalism Honest, quality journalism is a fantasy. It never existed. Even Benjamin Franklin used his newspaper to influence elections by slandering his political rivals. Not to mention fake news[0]. [0]: https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/02/even-ben-franklin-used-fake-news/ https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2017/02/even-ben-frankli...
  - 52-6F-62 7y ago
    That’s a gross generalization if I ever heard one. Both exist.
    - ScottFree 7y ago
      Your faith in your religion is touching. You keep believing, no matter the evidence.

madiathomas 7y ago

It was the next logical step for Russia after they built their own GPS and their alternative to the World Bank, the BRICS bank. Their biggest enemy has proven that they cannot be trusted and they are the ones who invented the Internet. Anytime they have a disagreement with a nation, they take their ball and go home. Like what they were doing with Huawei. I won't be surprised if China and India are working on the same kind of project. This world needs an alternative to anything built by the USA. That way superpowers will have to go to the negotiation table on an equal footing. We don't want one bully. We need at least 5 bullies.

rb808 7y ago
Of course Russia has had its own version of GPS for decades. Those ICBMs need some way to find their destination. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLONASS World Bank has never been important to Russia. You're right the US is dominating financial world right now which most of the world hates and its inevitable for something else to compete.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  Really the world bank's role is to be the scapegoat for fiscal misrule as the lender of last resort. They may or may not be "fair" (a subjective standard) and there are legitimate things to disagree with such as assignment of debts from previous regimes but crucially they lack the power to do much. They are judges without ballifs or executioners. They wield no force but saying no to loans and telling others what they think. If the countries could sustain themselves without credit from them then they have no need to be involved. The worst is essentially snarky comments pointing out that the current management goes against orthodoxy/still hasn't paid them back from 1977. If the country succeeds despite going against their judgement then they just look silly until either the world bank revises their conventional wisdom or they get to say "told ya so!" when the shoe drops. Austerity may do worse than an open credit pipeline in terms of growth and human impact but there are no guarantees that the creditor wouldn't mess that up as well and solvency is required to function in their role. While nice they literally can't be an infinite credit that never needs paid back fountain.
- 7y ago

mrtksn 7y ago

How much Facebook and other tech giants will be affected by a fragmented internet? Is FB still a $600B company if they are prevalent only in the USA, UK and Canada? I wonder if this trend of closed borders limited information circulation could lead to the diminishing of companies that depend on the network effect and rise of the companies with hard tech.

Nasrudith 7y ago
I suspect yes to the first if widespread enough in GDP (frankly in the grand scheme of things they matter less than Italy) and a hard no to the second. There is no reason to think that "hard tech" (assuming you mean more physical hardware) would benefit as a field they aren't really competitors even in terms of sucking up talent. Isolation wouldn't give them an edge there. Second as fragments would call for reinventing the wheel locally or possibly copying it to serve an insular market. We have already seen this with Cuban mechanics. They didn't become "the Detroit of the third world" producing cheaper cars for other nations, or even a divergent tech path for transit that was better in some way. They just essentially practiced at the art of antique automobile necromancy. Small players with adjacent bigger markets can innovate and scale up. Small players in small markets stagnate. The "small and local serves you better" is more meme than fact. People really want their parochial corner to be just as good but it hasn't worked out that way and stays small for several good reasons, and "choice" isn't one of them.
maxmalysh 7y ago
Facebook and Amazon _never_ penetrated Russian market. Russian companies (e.g. Yandex, VK) dominate in their respective domestic niches. Yandex even bought out Uber's operations here. Same for China. It has always been that way.

ivrrimum 7y ago

I think this is more to do with Russian tech sector trying to push their products, instead of Western ones. Uber - Yandex(russian alternative) etc.

omneity 7y ago

What infrastructure needs to be replicated "locally" for a country to unplug itself yet still have a functioning Internet simulacrum?

Scarbutt 7y ago
Nothing that they don't already have in place with some configuration adjustments. The Internet is just a lot of interconnected routers.
- omneity 7y ago
  I'm thinking BGP, DNS, IP subnets allocations and all the low level stuff. Also SSL authorities etc. I'm sure there's a lot of stuff you'd need to roll, I bet it would make for an interesting article :D
  - branzo 7y ago
    +1!

Merrill 7y ago

How do they handle corporate intranets? Normally I'd expect Globocorp to configure its intranet with, for example, a separate AS each for Germany and Russia. But the AS in Germany may be connected to the Russia AS via a 155 Mb/s leased line from Berlin to St Petersburg with BGP routers. The German AS may also connect via a corporate firewall to a public ISP in Germany, and the Russian AS to a public ISP in Russia. It is theoretically possible, therefore for a user on a public ISP to connect via Globocorp's intranet to a public ISP web site in Germany. Is there some technical or administrative requirement to prevent transit via corporate intranets?

dullgiulio 7y ago
I guess they would simply cut it in half by disconnecting the Russian ISP to the German one. Even VPNs stop being useful if all connections to the outside are severed.
- Merrill 7y ago
  Disconnecting the Russian ISP to the German one doesn't disconnect the leased line internal to Globocorps intranet which connects the Gobalcorp intranets in Russia and Germany.
- kitteh 7y ago
  They have the ability to redirect traffic to government controlled devices that isps have to support (they sometimes have nice DNS ptrs like DPI in them). The isps have to speak bgp to the govt boxes and they can announce large swaths of IP space to be redirected.
stephen_g 7y ago
It would be very unlikely that a company would publish that kind of route (it really should be filtered out) or allow traffic from outside the network to route through it. Unless they are intending to provide transit, the only routes they would announce to peers in either country would be to their own network.

altmind 7y ago

Rarely mentioned, but Russia also tested the security of their (mobile signal networks) SS7 and Diameter systems Dec 16-17. It never fails to amaze me how little attention is paid to these systems that can track, intercept and hijack the comms of mobile phone users of any country, internationally.

baybal2 7y ago
Maybe because it is what they themselves were successful in pwning in the West? It is a long running rumor in Russian internet that Russian spies managed to tap UK politician phones with fake roaming requests in 2016.
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  The question is, why UK politicians didn't use encryption which is available to ordinary people? Like Signal or even Whatsapp.
  - baybal2 7y ago
    Using encrypted VOIP will not do anything about SS7 hacks, as it will be your voice calls and SMSes that get rerouted, and remotely MIMed
    - mycall 7y ago
      You did answer, MITM doesn't work for Signal and WhatsApp, correct?
      - int_19h 7y ago
        You could MITM Signal if you control the cell towers on either end. It would be visible, because the security number would change. But in my experience helping people set it up, very few users understand what those numbers are for, and what it means when they change. Most just mark them as verified immediately.
7y ago

arkanciscan 7y ago

If Russia gets cut off from the rest of the Internet the camgirl site industry may never recover!

magwa101 7y ago

Starlink will be a total game changer when it goes global.

petethepig 7y ago
I don't know about that. Nothing stops them from banning the sales of the ground station equipment.
- Avamander 7y ago
  It's probably not that difficult to manufacture and there will be a black market for the tech.
  - romwell 7y ago
    The situation when the Internet is a black market thing is a huge victory for the Russian authoritarian state. They can afford to have 15% of the population with access to information and what not on the black market. The course of the country will be dictated by the beliefs of the other 85%, which will all buy into the 1000s of kaleidoscopic realities readily manufactured by Surkov & Co, and will all support every single action of the government.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

0x38B 7y ago

Commentary about the exercises from Russian Telegram channel ЗаТелеком (Following Telecom) [1]. Found through link on Meduza.io Google Translate with some manual editing for clarity by me. 1: https://t.me/zatelecom https://t.me/zatelecom # 1: https://t.me/zatelecom/13046 https://t.me/zatelecom/13046 "I got and decoded some materials from today's meeting of the Ministry of Digital Affairs on the exercises. Something tells me either a closed regime or not closed regime will be announced, but we won’t be able to get access either way. So, feed on some rumors. Let it be rumors from me. After [sunglasses] are my additions, probably mocking, will always follow. Based on what I heard and the slides, I can draw two additional conclusions: the Internet is impossible to understand and nobody understands what needs testing; ️ THEY'RE CONFUSING the law “on sustainable Runet” and the law “on critical objects of information infrastructure”. These are different laws, each living in its own sandbox, this confusion has been going on since the very beginning of the draft law “on a stable Runet” ️️️ Some slides (for some reason labeled Positive Technologies): ⏰ On December 16 and 17, exercise scenarios were worked out to ensure the stability and integrity of mobile radiotelephone communications for the SS7 and Diameter protocols All four federal mobile operators participated in the exercises. As part of the exercises, 18 attack scenarios were worked out for each operator - 12 through signal networks 2/3 of the SS7 generation and 6 through signal networks Diameter ️ The attacker was able to successfully carry out 62.5% of attacks through SS7 and 50% through DIameter The average attack detection time was about 2-3 minutes During the exercise, all scenarios were completed in full. Testing out the scenarios for each operator was about 6 hours. On average, working out one scenario took about 20 minutes. [sunglasses] Grains of corn fried by each curator were eaten about 800 grams each. Drunk 24 liters of coffee. 46.5 kg of cookies consumed LEARNING RECOMMENDATIONS To increase the effectiveness of warning, detecting and blocking attacks through signaling networks on the side of the telecom operator, it is necessary to provide: 1️⃣ Attack detection tools through the SS7 and Diameter signaling networks, which will allow timely detection of attacks on individual mobile subscribers and the operator’s infrastructure 2️⃣ Telecommunication equipment settings that prohibit signaling messages that are not used to establish communications between operators, but can be used to conduct attacks on networks of telecom operators 3️⃣ Procedures and security tools that allow you to quickly block ataui through signal networks 4️⃣ Periodic external signaling network security audits 5️⃣ Leave the market if points 1-4 were as unexpected for the operator as for representatives of the Ministry of Digital CONCLUSIONS ON THE RESULTS OF THE EXERCISES In the Russian Federation, it is necessary to create a regulatory framework and a unified system for collecting and analytically processing information about attacks through signaling networks on the infrastructure and subscribers of mobile telecom operators, as well as connecting it to the State SOPKA [2/3 slide picture from 4 positions OPERATORS -> UNIFIED SYSTEM -> GASOPOK] [sunglasses] Also in the Russian Federation, it is necessary to create a regulatory framework, to create a unified system for collecting and analytically processing information about attacks on WordPress and PHPNuke, as well as connecting it to GosSOPKA [sunglasses] Also in the Russian Federation, it is necessary to create a regulatory framework to create a unified system for collecting and analytical processing of information about attacks on active switches, as well as connecting it to the State SOPKA [sunglasses] Also in the Russian Federation, it is necessary to create a regulatory framework, to create a unified system for collecting and analytical processing of information about viruses sent to e-mail boxes, as well as connecting it to GosSOPKA" # 2: https://t.me/zatelecom/13053 https://t.me/zatelecom/13053 "About yesterday's "exercises." Again. Well, because in the morning the calls started again and the cart was breaking. Let me write here once, so I don't have to get up six times. 1. These were no "exercises." The circus that Sokolov arranged in the Ministry of Socks [Ministry of Digital Development, Communications and Mass Media of the Russian Federation ~Editor] is at most an "interagency meeting." Any military man will tell you that "Exercises are combat training activities, where the troops solve tasks on the ground in conditions that are closest to combat, large-scale comprehensive training operations." And in the ministry they held a MEETING. That's all. 2. Hysterical squirrels rush about the Internet with stories that "everything broke !!! aaaa !!!". Say hello to them. In fact, of course, the two dozen morons sitting in the office could not break anything. First of all, who would let them, the morons, onto real networks? 3. The proof that all those who gathered for the “exercises” are first-class morons was that when they were talking nonsense about the “18 attack scenarios”, nobody laughed. Everyone sat with serious faces and nodded their heads. I'll explain: "attacks through the SS-7 protocol" is about telephony. Not about the Internet. SS-7 (aka OKS-7) is, roughly speaking, the protocol by which signaling data for dialing is transmitted. The fact that we have not heard for a hundred thousand years that someone “broke the phone number” tells us that the telephone operators are working and the holes (yes, there were holes) were closed. Well, the figure of 62.5% of successful attacks, firstly, tells us that in two-thirds of the calls we could not get through, and secondly - how, tell me, from 12 attacks the figure could be 62.5%? ? Is this a successful attack in 7.5 cases out of 12? Further, Diameter protocol is likewise not related to the Internet. Google what Diameter is already. Hint: This is a service authorization-authentication-accounting protocol that is used in IMS networks. This applies to mobile communications and IP telephony. To IP-telephony, in short. But not to the internet. Well, half of the successful attacks tell us that these numbers were obtained "at a training ground", which was set up by bungling dumbasses, or simply thought up. 4. I want to remind you that there is no "sovereign runet". It was not built. And the forecast for the "construction" of this crap is 5 years, minimum. Look: for the first year they will only work on a sub-law and write a technical assignment. Then for two more years they will work out the engineering solution. Which will become obsolete exactly at the beginning of implementation. And then they will implement it for another three years - Rostelecom only has seven macro-regions and 79 branches. Just to bring equipment to everyone is already an impossible task for assholes from the offices. And it, equipment, also needs to be installed, commissioning, acceptance, testing, signing of acts ... Well, trust me - RTK can delay projects for decades ... I can say exactly the same thing about other "very large operators" . And it didn’t get into a fucking little thing - imagine a box designed by the morons from the offices. Therefore, I repeat, any failures on the networks can be justified by anything, but not by “sovereign runet”. Enough hysteria!"

SimplePotato 7y ago

Are we stepping in the era of disconnected world where every nation will write their own fake history... Are we stepping into the new age communism?

x3n0ph3n3 7y ago
I think "authoritarianism" is more apt than "communism" in describing the relationship between the government and the people rather than an economic model.
int_19h 7y ago
"Already history has in a sense ceased to exist, ie. there is no such thing as a history of our own times which could be universally accepted, and the exact sciences are endangered as soon as military necessity ceases to keep people up to the mark. Hitler can say that the Jews started the war, and if he survives that will become official history. He can’t say that two and two are five, because for the purposes of, say, ballistics they have to make four. But if the sort of world that I am afraid of arrives, a world of two or three great superstates which are unable to conquer one another, two and two could become five if the fuhrer wished it. That, so far as I can see, is the direction in which we are actually moving, though, of course, the process is reversible." George Orwell, 1944

ivhilaire 7y ago

Russia is a kleptocracy and all these 'tests' are just another way to steal money. Kleptocratic billionaires can not keep being billionaires without such 'projects'.

8bitsrule 7y ago
Did you ever wonder where those former Soviet citizens - now oligarchs - picked up their capitalist skills?
- ivhilaire 7y ago
  They didn't. No selling and multiplying. Only taking and dividing.

tus88 7y ago

> "Increasingly, authoritarian countries which want to control what citizens see are looking at what Iran and China have already done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_Uni...

shellehs 7y ago

Russia unplugged the internet and took a look at China.

c-smile 7y ago

Not sure why is this such a big deal. I can imagine that US will also disconnect itself if hostile access to critical infrastructure is at stake. China is permanently semi-connected for that matter.

pergadad 7y ago
But it's not about critical infrastructure, it's about control over information coming in and going out.

Jyaif 7y ago

I believe Eric Schmidt was the first to predict this: https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/eric-schmidt-internet-will-split-in-two-2028-china-2018-9 https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/eric-schmidt-internet-will...

terrycody 7y ago

China:naive boy

dang 7y ago
Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.

mirimir 7y ago

> "Increasingly, authoritarian countries which want to control what citizens see are looking at what Iran and China have already done. The US does the same. Indeed, the US takes down stuff globally, often by pwning a site's primary DNS servers. But of course, they claim that they are only taking down "illegal" sites. But there's rarely (if ever) any sort of due process. Edit: This is a well known fact. The FBI even brags about it, from time to time. But if any y'all want to claim that it's not, or is somehow distinguishable, please do share. Edit: For example, the FBI took down a news site, which was arguably protected by the Constitution: https://www.deepdotweb.com/ https://www.deepdotweb.com/ ... and you can see it through early 2019 here: https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://deepdotweb.com https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://deepdotweb.com

shmerl 7y ago

Quasi-fascist regime wants to be ready to silence looming protests.

duelingjello 7y ago

Rising balkanization, tariff wars, sanctions, isolationism and nationalism sets the table for future ”dark ages”-like declines and world wars. Sanctions, isolation and tariffs, each like eye-for-an-eye, makes the whole world “blind.” Overall, it’s another nail in the coffin of the mythology of perpetual progress, showcasing eras of decay, retreat, chaos, division and regression. Some points of the existing order need to be adjusted before corruption, greed, hate and narcissism scatter us like dust into the wind.

think29 7y ago

Think you can't dunk? Think again… http://bit.ly/2lYnwSI http://bit.ly/2lYnwSI

bookofjoe 7y ago

Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong IRL

woodandsteel 7y ago

For years Putin's defenders here at HN would talk about the great benefits he was bringing the country. Interesting how in the last year or so they have pretty much given up pushing that idea.