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This seems kind of backwards to be honest. The crackdown on H1-Bs will definitely have long term negative consequences on US tech economy, not positive conseque

by tzone 7y ago

This seems kind of backwards to be honest. The crackdown on H1-Bs will definitely have long term negative consequences on US tech economy, not positive consequences. A lot of major progress in tech was possible specifically because it was very easy to get h1-b visas especially for immigrants who came to study in US colleges. Imo the issue with European immigration system is that it isn't welcoming for permanent immigration. So high skilled people go to Europe, earn some money and then go back home because they are never accepted as equal citizens in most wester European countries (both by law, but even more importantly, by culture). In US on the other hand, immigrants can settle in much more easily and call it their new home, and become full fledged part of the society both by law and culturally. Especially in areas like SV and New York. When you look at leadership (i.e. C-titles, VPs, Founders) of a lot of tech companies in SV and New York, first and second generation immigrants are vastly over-represented. EDIT: also guess what is going to happen if immigration becomes harder? the outsourcing companies will get better and do the job cheaper remotely from India, so even more of the tech work will just get outsourced, meaning there will be even less tech jobs in Europe. You really can't stop the inevitable consequences of the global free market, unless you want to go full protectionist. So acquiring and KEEPING skilled labor through immigration is probably a much smarter long term choice compared to protectionist immigration strategies.

thbr99 7y ago
This. The culture part. I have worked in US,CA,EU. I felt US was more accepting than any other country. There is a feeling of being part of US society even though you are a temporary worker. There is very less cultural discrimination in the US. EU,CA are a conservative xenophobic bunch. Many immigrants in Canada who are now citizens still stick their native countries flags on their cars. I have only one question for them, if you like your native country so much, why don't you go back ? If you accepted Canadian citizenship, be like one.
- brij0102 7y ago
  I remember reading a while back that CA encourages retaining native identity (comparisons were made between a quilt and a melting pot ...)
  - thbr99 7y ago
    In CA, they call it mosaic. But this mosaic has lead to significant anti immigrant sentiments lately. See Québec's Law 21 and to some extend Law 9.
- thedracle 7y ago
  Think of all of the fourth generation people in the U.S. with some link to Italian or Scottish immigrants who still wear kilts, or fly the Italian flag in their homes. It's pretty silly to Italians and Scots I'm sure, but maintaining some semblance of this distant cultural connection isn't the worst thing in the world. And the reality is the large immigration waves of both groups in the past left as much of a mark on American culture as it left on them. Assimilation isn't a one way street, immigrants should expect to change American culture as much as American culture changes them.
blub 7y ago
The US is perfectly capable of supplying the minds that will invent next year's technologies, but probably not at the current salaries :) It just might be that the companies making tens of billions will have to start sharing more of the pie. "the outsourcing companies will get better and do the job cheaper remotely from India, so even more of the tech work will just get outsourced, meaning there will be even less tech jobs in Europe. You really can't stop the inevitable consequences of the global free market, unless you want to go full protectionist. So acquiring and KEEPING skilled labor through immigration is probably a much smarter long term choice compared to protectionist immigration strategies. " I'd like to see some arguments in support of your statements. Outsourcing companies are more or less stuck at the same level, because they just jump from crappy project to crappy project and they don't invest in employee development and furthermore treat their employees poorly. There's a line of reasoning saying that the current political meltdown in Western Europe is a direct cause of the global free market which is royally fucking blue-collar professions and is also hitting the upper layers. They've had enough of being force-fed globalization and multi-culturalism and now they're lashing out.
- brij0102 7y ago
  Anecdotal but I have recently noticed a spurt in ‘retained’ workers for dot-net, Java, and ‘open source’ work in India for anywhere from 2100 to 2800 dollars a month. Maybe this is more for small companies but those small business owners couldn’t dream of hiring someone for twice as much than that even in rural US (and no benefits or payroll and easy increase or reduction in the strength). Outsourcing and automation are way more powerful forces pressuring down salaries, whatever the visa regime (and constantly competing against each other too)

by tzone 7y ago

thbr99 7y ago

This. The culture part. I have worked in US,CA,EU. I felt US was more accepting than any other country. There is a feeling of being part of US society even though you are a temporary worker. There is very less cultural discrimination in the US. EU,CA are a conservative xenophobic bunch. Many immigrants in Canada who are now citizens still stick their native countries flags on their cars. I have only one question for them, if you like your native country so much, why don't you go back ? If you accepted Canadian citizenship, be like one.

brij0102 7y ago
I remember reading a while back that CA encourages retaining native identity (comparisons were made between a quilt and a melting pot ...)
- thbr99 7y ago
  In CA, they call it mosaic. But this mosaic has lead to significant anti immigrant sentiments lately. See Québec's Law 21 and to some extend Law 9.
thedracle 7y ago
Think of all of the fourth generation people in the U.S. with some link to Italian or Scottish immigrants who still wear kilts, or fly the Italian flag in their homes. It's pretty silly to Italians and Scots I'm sure, but maintaining some semblance of this distant cultural connection isn't the worst thing in the world. And the reality is the large immigration waves of both groups in the past left as much of a mark on American culture as it left on them. Assimilation isn't a one way street, immigrants should expect to change American culture as much as American culture changes them.

blub 7y ago

The US is perfectly capable of supplying the minds that will invent next year's technologies, but probably not at the current salaries :) It just might be that the companies making tens of billions will have to start sharing more of the pie. "the outsourcing companies will get better and do the job cheaper remotely from India, so even more of the tech work will just get outsourced, meaning there will be even less tech jobs in Europe. You really can't stop the inevitable consequences of the global free market, unless you want to go full protectionist. So acquiring and KEEPING skilled labor through immigration is probably a much smarter long term choice compared to protectionist immigration strategies. " I'd like to see some arguments in support of your statements. Outsourcing companies are more or less stuck at the same level, because they just jump from crappy project to crappy project and they don't invest in employee development and furthermore treat their employees poorly. There's a line of reasoning saying that the current political meltdown in Western Europe is a direct cause of the global free market which is royally fucking blue-collar professions and is also hitting the upper layers. They've had enough of being force-fed globalization and multi-culturalism and now they're lashing out.

brij0102 7y ago
Anecdotal but I have recently noticed a spurt in ‘retained’ workers for dot-net, Java, and ‘open source’ work in India for anywhere from 2100 to 2800 dollars a month. Maybe this is more for small companies but those small business owners couldn’t dream of hiring someone for twice as much than that even in rural US (and no benefits or payroll and easy increase or reduction in the strength). Outsourcing and automation are way more powerful forces pressuring down salaries, whatever the visa regime (and constantly competing against each other too)