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I think at least with regards to HN, it's that the average user is, just being honest, wealthy and from a very privileged background without too much lifetime d

by fiblye 7y ago

I think at least with regards to HN, it's that the average user is, just being honest, wealthy and from a very privileged background without too much lifetime difficulty. There's a disproportionate number of people here who can and did walk into Silicon Valley and said something along the lines of "give me 10 million dollars and I'll make a phone app", then have the free time and comfortable fall back to write a failure report about "their journey." I'm not saying that's all or even most of the people here, but it's a larger proportion compared to probably any other community on the internet. I mention this because many of the strongest "let's decriminalize (or even legalize) all drugs" commenters have similar backgrounds. Comfy financial situation and room to experiment with the peace of mind knowing that they have people to help dust them off should they get a little sloppy with their drug use. These people can afford to take a week to enjoy an ayahuasca resort, follow it up with a beach vacation and a little MDMA, then return home to a daily bowl of weed to relax from their hard month of partying and pop a couple addies to get focused and pull an all-nighter on their new web app. They can financially and mentally afford to use drugs as mood and mental enhancers. Loads of people who aren't so comfortable use drugs to numb the rough edges of life. Having been on this site for over a decade, I've seen loads of comments that make many users here seem completely out of touch with what average people go through--many HN users on another plane of existence. I think a considerable number of people who promote drugs everywhere have good intentions, but they don't really consider the effects for most people. The aspect of being locked up for drugs does do a lot to tarnish lives, but the mere act of having easily available mind-altering substances is also enough to ruin the lives of many.

bigfudge 7y ago
If alcohol were not legal your comment would make sense. As it is, we reserve the most dangerous (as in, causes most harm both personally and socially) for those least able to cope. Prohibition makes recreational soft drug use less common among those with fewer resources than it otherwise would be, despite the fact that this would be safer than abusing alcohol.
tartoran 7y ago
Anything that can be abused is finds its population to do so. Banning is not a solution though, but more research and education on the subject. Think about how alcohol abuse and even sugar abuse are treated by society: people are aware of the dangers yet some can’t stop having them.
venatiodecorus 7y ago
i think what's really out of touch is assuming that poor, unprivileged people are like children, who need to be babysat and protected from themselves, else they spend all day just getting high. this is classist and incorrect. many people find it simpler to blame the individuals without considering the systemic causes of addiction, but that is putting the cart before the horse.
wonderwonder 7y ago
I agree, drugs can have a negative effect on people but I believe that this affect regarding marijuana use pales in comparison to the negative effect its continued prohibition causes. In the United States it is wielded as an oppressive tool with use "roughly equal among Blacks and whites, yet Blacks are 3.73 times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession." Those arrested are then affected for the rest of their lives, their criminal history hurting both their social and economic future. The fact that the rich know they are able to get away with it is proof that there is a separate legal system and that legalizing marijuana should be done. I am not arguing that pot cant be detrimental but its very much in the same ballpark as alcohol. There are people currently non violent offenders spending decades in jail for selling marijuana, something that those same people from comfy backgrounds are now getting rich from. The genie is out of the bottle, its far less detrimental now to just legalize it federally, apply rules similar to those applied to alcohol and let all non violent marijuana offenders out of prison. Society often looks at people through an odd lens. A rich white guy sitting drinking a couple of scotches at night is approved of, a group of black guys sitting around drinking a couple beers is reason to call the police. Marijuana prohibition does nothing but entrench this view. https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/sentencing-reform/war-marijuana-black-and-white https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/sentencing-reform/...
- venatiodecorus 7y ago
  elon musk smoking weed with joe rogan is really just a slap in the face to every poor black kid in jail over pot
  - seattle_spring 7y ago
    Hopefully you realize then that the solution is to stop punishing "poor black kids" for smoking weed, and not to throw Musk in prison.
    - wonderwonder 7y ago
      I believe that's what OP is saying, That neither party should be in prison for a crime that is just a crime for some people in some places and legal in others.
CoolGuySteve 7y ago
Just because the people making the argument come from privileged backgrounds doesn't invalidate the argument itself. I came from Canada where drug offenses of all kinds are penalized much less harshly than the US. Even in cases of addiction, the social safety net to deal with it is much better: free hospital stays, free counseling, cheap college, better employment insurance, etc. Effectively, everyone in Ontario can be considered as privileged as the people in your example in terms of leeway given even though I've never been given 10 million dollars for a phone app. We made that decision as a society and since I left the government has started selling marijuana: www.ocs.ca So when talking about lives being ruined, we have to start asking if the cure of prohibition is worse than the disease of addiction.
driverdan 7y ago
> I mention this because many of the strongest "let's decriminalize (or even legalize) all drugs" commenters have similar backgrounds. How is this relevant? Many of us who support decriminalization do so because of the impact it has had on less fortunate communities. Those who are privileged should be using their privilege to help those communities by promoting decriminalization.

by fiblye 7y ago

bigfudge 7y ago

If alcohol were not legal your comment would make sense. As it is, we reserve the most dangerous (as in, causes most harm both personally and socially) for those least able to cope. Prohibition makes recreational soft drug use less common among those with fewer resources than it otherwise would be, despite the fact that this would be safer than abusing alcohol.

tartoran 7y ago

Anything that can be abused is finds its population to do so. Banning is not a solution though, but more research and education on the subject. Think about how alcohol abuse and even sugar abuse are treated by society: people are aware of the dangers yet some can’t stop having them.

venatiodecorus 7y ago

i think what's really out of touch is assuming that poor, unprivileged people are like children, who need to be babysat and protected from themselves, else they spend all day just getting high. this is classist and incorrect. many people find it simpler to blame the individuals without considering the systemic causes of addiction, but that is putting the cart before the horse.

wonderwonder 7y ago

I agree, drugs can have a negative effect on people but I believe that this affect regarding marijuana use pales in comparison to the negative effect its continued prohibition causes. In the United States it is wielded as an oppressive tool with use "roughly equal among Blacks and whites, yet Blacks are 3.73 times as likely to be arrested for marijuana possession." Those arrested are then affected for the rest of their lives, their criminal history hurting both their social and economic future. The fact that the rich know they are able to get away with it is proof that there is a separate legal system and that legalizing marijuana should be done. I am not arguing that pot cant be detrimental but its very much in the same ballpark as alcohol. There are people currently non violent offenders spending decades in jail for selling marijuana, something that those same people from comfy backgrounds are now getting rich from. The genie is out of the bottle, its far less detrimental now to just legalize it federally, apply rules similar to those applied to alcohol and let all non violent marijuana offenders out of prison. Society often looks at people through an odd lens. A rich white guy sitting drinking a couple of scotches at night is approved of, a group of black guys sitting around drinking a couple beers is reason to call the police. Marijuana prohibition does nothing but entrench this view. https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/sentencing-reform/war-marijuana-black-and-white https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/sentencing-reform/...

venatiodecorus 7y ago
elon musk smoking weed with joe rogan is really just a slap in the face to every poor black kid in jail over pot
- seattle_spring 7y ago
  Hopefully you realize then that the solution is to stop punishing "poor black kids" for smoking weed, and not to throw Musk in prison.
  - wonderwonder 7y ago
    I believe that's what OP is saying, That neither party should be in prison for a crime that is just a crime for some people in some places and legal in others.

CoolGuySteve 7y ago

Just because the people making the argument come from privileged backgrounds doesn't invalidate the argument itself. I came from Canada where drug offenses of all kinds are penalized much less harshly than the US. Even in cases of addiction, the social safety net to deal with it is much better: free hospital stays, free counseling, cheap college, better employment insurance, etc. Effectively, everyone in Ontario can be considered as privileged as the people in your example in terms of leeway given even though I've never been given 10 million dollars for a phone app. We made that decision as a society and since I left the government has started selling marijuana: www.ocs.ca So when talking about lives being ruined, we have to start asking if the cure of prohibition is worse than the disease of addiction.

driverdan 7y ago

> I mention this because many of the strongest "let's decriminalize (or even legalize) all drugs" commenters have similar backgrounds. How is this relevant? Many of us who support decriminalization do so because of the impact it has had on less fortunate communities. Those who are privileged should be using their privilege to help those communities by promoting decriminalization.