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This is why I specified non-feminist MRAs, e.g https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/ https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/. If you want to have an example for how

This is why I specified non-feminist MRAs, e.g https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/ https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/. If you want to have an example for how to do it right, check out https://old.reddit.com/r/MensLib/ https://old.reddit.com/r/MensLib/ (currently on holiday private to give the excellent moderators a break but check it out after christmas) Once it's available again you will notice that in the latter, the focus is on actually helping men. Thing like the male domestic abuse shelter, Terry Cruz joining the #metoo movement, discussion of toxic masculinity and how it fucks up men+how to overcome the damage it did. All of that is good stuff, necessary and compatible/part of the feminist lens onto the world, figuring out how the traditional view on masculinity (stoic, unfeeling rocks that only want sex and power) fucks men in similar way as it does women. Now, when you check out https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/ https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/, you will notice that they also do that to some degree, but they seem to be mainly obsessed with pointing out women's hypocrisy, shutting down feminism, playing bullshit evopsych games etc. Basically, anti-feminism as a way to continue doing things that hurt the bulk of men, with the promise that if they try hard enough they will be the winners. Also, before this gets flagged as well, come on guys, just engage. My statement is clear: feminist MRA which recognizes men getting fucked doesn't mean women are doing the fucking and wants to change our social structure to the benefit of both gender roles (or dissolve them)=> good. Reactionary MRA which doesn't actually care that much about helping men and more about shutting down women's rights movements=> bad. If you are a conservative that disagrees with e.g. abolition of gender but agree that men should not have to real men and that women are not fact out to manipulate all men into doing the work for them (something r/theredpill has in their sidebar: https://dontmarry.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/the_manipulated_man.pdf https://dontmarry.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/the_manipulate...) then you are part of the feminist MRA crowd, not the anti-feminist one. And if you feel I am being uncharitable, come at me, I have sources and am always up for a good debate with strangers on the internet :-)

leereeves 7y ago
There's a good reason MRAs are sometimes anti-feminism: because feminists are sometimes anti-men. A few examples: That documentary I mentioned, The Red Pill (which is not related to the reddit sub), faced a lot of opposition from feminists and screenings were cancelled because of it. Affirmative action in Swedish universities ended because feminists were opposed to the fact that affirmative action was helping men (who are vastly underrepresented in Swedish universities). The education minister, from a party that has traditionally supported feminism and affirmative action, said: "The education system should open doors -- not slam them in the face of motivated young women". The message is clear: equality for women, but not for men. The infamous Dear Colleague policy for handling sexual assault allegations on campus blatantly ignored the rights of men, and suffered many defeats in court, but continued to be popular with feminists until the "non-feminist" MRAs ended it. I looked at the other subbreddit you mentioned, MensLib, a few times before it was locked down, and I never saw them opposing feminist policies that hurt men. I'm willing to engage with you if you're willing to move past attributing all good things and only good things to feminism and slandering anyone who opposes feminist overreach. If you can't acknowledge that feminists, like any other special interest group, sometimes advocate their own interests at the expense of others, you've deified them in a completely unwarranted way. (Also, the Reddit sub TheRedPill is not an MRA sub and doesn't claim to be; it's a sub advocating a "sexual strategy" and their introduction clearly says "I'm not here to parade the concepts of Men's Rights". It's not related to the film I mentioned and has nothing to do with this discussion. I honestly don't know why you brought it up, except perhaps in another attempt to slander MRAs.)

leereeves 7y ago

There's a good reason MRAs are sometimes anti-feminism: because feminists are sometimes anti-men. A few examples: That documentary I mentioned, The Red Pill (which is not related to the reddit sub), faced a lot of opposition from feminists and screenings were cancelled because of it. Affirmative action in Swedish universities ended because feminists were opposed to the fact that affirmative action was helping men (who are vastly underrepresented in Swedish universities). The education minister, from a party that has traditionally supported feminism and affirmative action, said: "The education system should open doors -- not slam them in the face of motivated young women". The message is clear: equality for women, but not for men. The infamous Dear Colleague policy for handling sexual assault allegations on campus blatantly ignored the rights of men, and suffered many defeats in court, but continued to be popular with feminists until the "non-feminist" MRAs ended it. I looked at the other subbreddit you mentioned, MensLib, a few times before it was locked down, and I never saw them opposing feminist policies that hurt men. I'm willing to engage with you if you're willing to move past attributing all good things and only good things to feminism and slandering anyone who opposes feminist overreach. If you can't acknowledge that feminists, like any other special interest group, sometimes advocate their own interests at the expense of others, you've deified them in a completely unwarranted way. (Also, the Reddit sub TheRedPill is not an MRA sub and doesn't claim to be; it's a sub advocating a "sexual strategy" and their introduction clearly says "I'm not here to parade the concepts of Men's Rights". It's not related to the film I mentioned and has nothing to do with this discussion. I honestly don't know why you brought it up, except perhaps in another attempt to slander MRAs.)