10 ms·

Sure, you can parse over huge amounts of data and find all sorts of bogus "patterns" that don't actually mean anything[1][2]. But you can't make a valid science

Sure, you can parse over huge amounts of data and find all sorts of bogus "patterns" that don't actually mean anything[1][2]. But you can't make a valid science with real predictive power out of something where there is no actual causal connection between event A and event B. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spurious_correlation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spurious_correlation [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking

jelliclesfarm 7y ago
So you are saying astrology is ‘phony’? Learning Vedic astrology is my 2020 goal. I find it compelling enough to try to understand what is about...it’s something I have been looking into for 5-7 years and I am no longer skeptical about it. Can you change my mind? (Despite the awkward wording, it’s a sincere query)
- krapp 7y ago
  Yes, astrology is phony. It's nothing but confirmation bias, placebo effect, paredolia and fraud. There is no known physical mechanism by which astrology could possibly work. Its claims have been thoroughly and repeatedly debunked through experimentation, and the psychological biases which cause it to appear true are well known and documented[0,1]. Note that this applies to all forms of astrology. Doesn't matter if it's Indian, Greek, Babylonian or generated by algorithms - the thesis that astrological phenomena and star patterns have an influence on human personality, behavior or events is demonstrably and universally false. Please spend 2020 learning something of value, rather than continuing to be intrigued by meaningless nonsense. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_science [1]https://www.relativelyinteresting.com/astrology-and-horoscopes-debunked/ https://www.relativelyinteresting.com/astrology-and-horoscop...
  - jelliclesfarm 7y ago
    [..] There is no known physical mechanism by which astrology could possibly work.[..] - So this is your only stated reason why astrology is phony.
    - krapp 7y ago
      >So this is your only stated reason why astrology is phony. Along with the links to at least two sites explaining multiple cross referenced arguments against it, yes. If you're really sincere about exploring the criticisms of astrology, a simple Google search on "debunking astrology" or similar would provide you with more material than you could likely read in a lifetime. If, however you choose to disregard the entire body of scientific thought and all observational evidence to the contrary as insufficient, then I suppose nothing can convince you, and this thread is a waste of everyone's time.
      - jelliclesfarm 7y ago
        I don’t understand your hostility. I wish to study it and I think it will take me 3-5 years to even come up with an opinion. I assumed you had studied astrology and hence debunking it. If you have nothing except internet search results, your opinion that it is a pseudoscience is only as good as any layperson who believes in its validity. It is still intriguing enough for me to pursue it. It was part of my life as a child in India and I have heard arguments against it just like yours. Now I am old enough and have time/energy/inclination to explore what I find intriguing, I am going to find out for myself. This thread is for people who have opinions that they can articulate with some background. I thank you for the time you took to engage.
        krapp 7y ago
        >If you have nothing except internet search results, your opinion that it is a pseudoscience is only as good as any layperson who believes in its validity. Those internet search results would lead you to numerous articles and research done by experts in various scientific fields, but it seems you have yet to even bother to engage with them. The fact that people have been telling you the truth about astrology since you were a child, and you still give it credence, suggests your mind is already made up. You clearly believe in it, and are seeking validation for that belief, rather than objective truth. I promise you, you could find the same counter-arguments made in scientific journals as well, if you don't trust the internet, as I'm certain plenty of online sources will cite them. You could talk to any astronomer, physicist or psychologist in person and they will tell you the same thing. The opinion that astrology is a pseudoscience is not merely my own, it is the opinion of the entire scientific community. >This thread is for people who have opinions that they can articulate with some background. I've given you exactly what you've asked for, even better than my own personal opinion. Attempting to discredit or debunk me, personally, has no bearing on the truth. Its up to you to educate yourself.
  - karmakaze 7y ago
    Saying astrology is placebo effect is giving it a lot of credit. Placebo effect is fairly strong and positive. It's hard to develop drugs where its effects aren't masked by placebo.
    - jelliclesfarm 7y ago
      I agree. It’s not a suitable parallel.
- mindcrime 7y ago
  So you are saying astrology is ‘phony’? Yes, that is what I'm saying. Can you change my mind? Almost certainly not. Nor is there any particular reason why I'd be interested in wasting my time in the effort. Believe whatever you want to believe, it's no skin off my back.
  - jelliclesfarm 7y ago
    Thanks. I am a little confused by the defensiveness exhibited by people when asked to explain skepticism towards astrology. If someone asked you to explain why you don’t think quantum computing will deliver solutions in the near term, there would be a barrage of responses from people who have a thread-like tenuous grasp on the subject. And yet, there is no intellectual curiosity about astrology. I found your response a tad defensive and hollow. But I do appreciate that you took the time to share your opinion.
    - mindcrime 7y ago
      When you so obviously already have your mind made up what you believe, there is absolutely no justification for me - or anybody else - to engage with you in an attempt to "change your mind". That's not an honest and open, intellectual discussion. Frankly, this post and all of your responses so far strike me as basically just moderately clever trolling.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - jelliclesfarm 7y ago
        Interesting. You still don’t have a convincing answer.

jelliclesfarm 7y ago

So you are saying astrology is ‘phony’? Learning Vedic astrology is my 2020 goal. I find it compelling enough to try to understand what is about...it’s something I have been looking into for 5-7 years and I am no longer skeptical about it. Can you change my mind? (Despite the awkward wording, it’s a sincere query)

krapp 7y ago
Yes, astrology is phony. It's nothing but confirmation bias, placebo effect, paredolia and fraud. There is no known physical mechanism by which astrology could possibly work. Its claims have been thoroughly and repeatedly debunked through experimentation, and the psychological biases which cause it to appear true are well known and documented[0,1]. Note that this applies to all forms of astrology. Doesn't matter if it's Indian, Greek, Babylonian or generated by algorithms - the thesis that astrological phenomena and star patterns have an influence on human personality, behavior or events is demonstrably and universally false. Please spend 2020 learning something of value, rather than continuing to be intrigued by meaningless nonsense. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_science [1]https://www.relativelyinteresting.com/astrology-and-horoscopes-debunked/ https://www.relativelyinteresting.com/astrology-and-horoscop...
- jelliclesfarm 7y ago
  [..] There is no known physical mechanism by which astrology could possibly work.[..] - So this is your only stated reason why astrology is phony.
  - krapp 7y ago
    >So this is your only stated reason why astrology is phony. Along with the links to at least two sites explaining multiple cross referenced arguments against it, yes. If you're really sincere about exploring the criticisms of astrology, a simple Google search on "debunking astrology" or similar would provide you with more material than you could likely read in a lifetime. If, however you choose to disregard the entire body of scientific thought and all observational evidence to the contrary as insufficient, then I suppose nothing can convince you, and this thread is a waste of everyone's time.
    - jelliclesfarm 7y ago
      I don’t understand your hostility. I wish to study it and I think it will take me 3-5 years to even come up with an opinion. I assumed you had studied astrology and hence debunking it. If you have nothing except internet search results, your opinion that it is a pseudoscience is only as good as any layperson who believes in its validity. It is still intriguing enough for me to pursue it. It was part of my life as a child in India and I have heard arguments against it just like yours. Now I am old enough and have time/energy/inclination to explore what I find intriguing, I am going to find out for myself. This thread is for people who have opinions that they can articulate with some background. I thank you for the time you took to engage.
      - krapp 7y ago
        >If you have nothing except internet search results, your opinion that it is a pseudoscience is only as good as any layperson who believes in its validity. Those internet search results would lead you to numerous articles and research done by experts in various scientific fields, but it seems you have yet to even bother to engage with them. The fact that people have been telling you the truth about astrology since you were a child, and you still give it credence, suggests your mind is already made up. You clearly believe in it, and are seeking validation for that belief, rather than objective truth. I promise you, you could find the same counter-arguments made in scientific journals as well, if you don't trust the internet, as I'm certain plenty of online sources will cite them. You could talk to any astronomer, physicist or psychologist in person and they will tell you the same thing. The opinion that astrology is a pseudoscience is not merely my own, it is the opinion of the entire scientific community. >This thread is for people who have opinions that they can articulate with some background. I've given you exactly what you've asked for, even better than my own personal opinion. Attempting to discredit or debunk me, personally, has no bearing on the truth. Its up to you to educate yourself.
- karmakaze 7y ago
  Saying astrology is placebo effect is giving it a lot of credit. Placebo effect is fairly strong and positive. It's hard to develop drugs where its effects aren't masked by placebo.
  - jelliclesfarm 7y ago
    I agree. It’s not a suitable parallel.
mindcrime 7y ago
So you are saying astrology is ‘phony’? Yes, that is what I'm saying. Can you change my mind? Almost certainly not. Nor is there any particular reason why I'd be interested in wasting my time in the effort. Believe whatever you want to believe, it's no skin off my back.
- jelliclesfarm 7y ago
  Thanks. I am a little confused by the defensiveness exhibited by people when asked to explain skepticism towards astrology. If someone asked you to explain why you don’t think quantum computing will deliver solutions in the near term, there would be a barrage of responses from people who have a thread-like tenuous grasp on the subject. And yet, there is no intellectual curiosity about astrology. I found your response a tad defensive and hollow. But I do appreciate that you took the time to share your opinion.
  - mindcrime 7y ago
    When you so obviously already have your mind made up what you believe, there is absolutely no justification for me - or anybody else - to engage with you in an attempt to "change your mind". That's not an honest and open, intellectual discussion. Frankly, this post and all of your responses so far strike me as basically just moderately clever trolling.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - jelliclesfarm 7y ago
      Interesting. You still don’t have a convincing answer.