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> My preference would be for vape liquids containing nicotine to be prescription only for recovering smokers. Isn't this going to make the argument for making

> My preference would be for vape liquids containing nicotine to be prescription only for recovering smokers. Isn't this going to make the argument for making teens smoke cigarettes so they can get access to vaping with nicotine? And before you say "they're not going to go that far," we can also have a conversation about what underage people will do to get access to alcohol. Also, I'm especially humored by people wanting to put legal restrictions on things like vaping but wont have that same discussion about alcohol, which imo is much more harmful. Alcohol literally is: Yes, bonus that there's less cancer involved, but it' still a monetized addiction.

adjkant 7y ago
I think the flaw in that flow is that no one cares about nicotine, they just want vaping. As long as vaping without nicotine exists, there's no reason to go after the other version. Unless you're already addicted, and in that case, I'd say let's get them the prescription as well.
- lnanek2 7y ago
  > As long as vaping without nicotine exists, there's no reason to go after the other version. That's not true. I find nicotine quite useful for hackathons and the like where I don't want to sleep, but also don't want to visit the restroom as often as red bull or other caffeine options would make me.
  - adjkant 7y ago
    That's an active choice for a specific use case, mind you one that's not healthy to have regularly. If people want nicotine, let's sell its on its own. There is literally no reason to package it into vaping unless you're coming from smoking or are simply trying to hook your customers.
  - EdwardDiego 7y ago
    You may be interested in methamphetamine then... ...personally I'd be worried if I couldn't code without a drug. And yes, I include caffeine in that. However, nicotine is far, far, far more addictive than caffeine, so it really is a different ball game.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  Yeah, and I smoked for more than a decade for the great taste and flavor. People vape for nicotine. It’s habit forming, pleasant, either compatible with or actively helpful for normal social and working. Like caffeine. People say they don’t drink tea or coffee for caffeine but there might be one person who drinks decaf or no caffeine tea or coffee with the regularity of all the addicts who know perfectly well that they drink it most every day and feel crap if they don’t.
  - adjkant 7y ago
    If you don't get hooked to start, no habit forming needed. Isn't the point to stop the cycle? You also have to remember that these are teens as young as 9th grade that are doing it for social reasons. Let them play around with some flavored vapor (which seems safe so far, needing more regulation) and walk away without an addition.
  - derefr 7y ago
    One thing I don't understand about caffeine addicts is why they don't just separate out "caffeinated drinks" into their components: "caffeine" and "drinks." You don't have to get your caffeine one sip at a time. Take a caffeine pill in the morning, then drink whatever you like. (And then you won't be staining your teeth or dehydrating your gastrointestinal mucosal lining by constantly exposing it to a diuretic, either!)
- lovehashbrowns 7y ago
  Nicotine is a stimulant, so some people enjoy it. Nicotine by itself isn't really too much of a health concern from my understanding, especially when compared to alcohol. So I really don't get why there's such a fuss about banning vaping entirely, or putting it on a prescription-only state.
  - EdwardDiego 7y ago
    I am opposed to open slather nicotine vaping because it's literally just selling a product that has the brilliant business aspect of being horribly addictive.
newnewpdro 7y ago
And how would minors be filling prescriptions for nicotine juice? Presumably it wouldn't be prescribed to minors, and doctors doing that would risk serious consequences.
- lovehashbrowns 7y ago
  So then what options would minors that have addictions to cigarettes have for getting off of them?
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    This strikes me as quite the edge case, but we have a variety of alternative forms of metered nicotine delivery that are far less recreational, trendy, and photogenic like nicotine gums and patches that doctors can prescribe to assist parents struggling with addicted children.
  - gnicholas 7y ago
    They could allow prescriptions for minors, but require the amount to be ramped down over weeks/months so as not to enable new ongoing addictions.
EdwardDiego 7y ago
> Isn't this going to make the argument for making teens smoke cigarettes so they can get access to vaping with nicotine? And before you say "they're not going to go that far," we can also have a conversation about what underage people will do to get access to alcohol Alcohol is an entirely different animal to nicotine. Nicotine doesn't, in normal doses, produce a notably altered mental state that's strongly associated in society with "having a good time". Alcohol is significantly more attractive because of all its socialisation associations. Also, nicotine is significantly more addictive than alcohol. https://www.health.com/condition/smoking/an-addiction-specialist-explains-nicotines-powerful-hold-over-cigarette-smokers https://www.health.com/condition/smoking/an-addiction-specia...
- lovehashbrowns 7y ago
  > Nicotine doesn't, in normal doses, produce a notably altered mental state Right, nicotine doesn't lead to drunk driving. So that makes vaping with nicotine a target for legislation, whereas alcohol is perfectly fine because it leads to a good time? Nicotine also doesn't lead to things like alcohol poisoning, or liver damage.
- derefr 7y ago
  Nicotine is increasingly being considered a nootropic/cognitive enhancer, and so is likely to become a drug of abuse as a "study drug" for college students, the way Ritalin is today.
apta 7y ago
> Isn't this going to make the argument for making teens smoke cigarettes so they can get access to vaping with nicotine? Then simply apply the same to cigarettes. Only current people who smoke can buy them, this paves the way to eliminate it altogether. But unfortunately, greed and money speak more than the health of people.

adjkant 7y ago

I think the flaw in that flow is that no one cares about nicotine, they just want vaping. As long as vaping without nicotine exists, there's no reason to go after the other version. Unless you're already addicted, and in that case, I'd say let's get them the prescription as well.

lnanek2 7y ago
> As long as vaping without nicotine exists, there's no reason to go after the other version. That's not true. I find nicotine quite useful for hackathons and the like where I don't want to sleep, but also don't want to visit the restroom as often as red bull or other caffeine options would make me.
- adjkant 7y ago
  That's an active choice for a specific use case, mind you one that's not healthy to have regularly. If people want nicotine, let's sell its on its own. There is literally no reason to package it into vaping unless you're coming from smoking or are simply trying to hook your customers.
- EdwardDiego 7y ago
  You may be interested in methamphetamine then... ...personally I'd be worried if I couldn't code without a drug. And yes, I include caffeine in that. However, nicotine is far, far, far more addictive than caffeine, so it really is a different ball game.
barry-cotter 7y ago
Yeah, and I smoked for more than a decade for the great taste and flavor. People vape for nicotine. It’s habit forming, pleasant, either compatible with or actively helpful for normal social and working. Like caffeine. People say they don’t drink tea or coffee for caffeine but there might be one person who drinks decaf or no caffeine tea or coffee with the regularity of all the addicts who know perfectly well that they drink it most every day and feel crap if they don’t.
- adjkant 7y ago
  If you don't get hooked to start, no habit forming needed. Isn't the point to stop the cycle? You also have to remember that these are teens as young as 9th grade that are doing it for social reasons. Let them play around with some flavored vapor (which seems safe so far, needing more regulation) and walk away without an addition.
- derefr 7y ago
  One thing I don't understand about caffeine addicts is why they don't just separate out "caffeinated drinks" into their components: "caffeine" and "drinks." You don't have to get your caffeine one sip at a time. Take a caffeine pill in the morning, then drink whatever you like. (And then you won't be staining your teeth or dehydrating your gastrointestinal mucosal lining by constantly exposing it to a diuretic, either!)
lovehashbrowns 7y ago
Nicotine is a stimulant, so some people enjoy it. Nicotine by itself isn't really too much of a health concern from my understanding, especially when compared to alcohol. So I really don't get why there's such a fuss about banning vaping entirely, or putting it on a prescription-only state.
- EdwardDiego 7y ago
  I am opposed to open slather nicotine vaping because it's literally just selling a product that has the brilliant business aspect of being horribly addictive.

newnewpdro 7y ago

And how would minors be filling prescriptions for nicotine juice? Presumably it wouldn't be prescribed to minors, and doctors doing that would risk serious consequences.

lovehashbrowns 7y ago
So then what options would minors that have addictions to cigarettes have for getting off of them?
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  This strikes me as quite the edge case, but we have a variety of alternative forms of metered nicotine delivery that are far less recreational, trendy, and photogenic like nicotine gums and patches that doctors can prescribe to assist parents struggling with addicted children.
- gnicholas 7y ago
  They could allow prescriptions for minors, but require the amount to be ramped down over weeks/months so as not to enable new ongoing addictions.

EdwardDiego 7y ago

> Isn't this going to make the argument for making teens smoke cigarettes so they can get access to vaping with nicotine? And before you say "they're not going to go that far," we can also have a conversation about what underage people will do to get access to alcohol Alcohol is an entirely different animal to nicotine. Nicotine doesn't, in normal doses, produce a notably altered mental state that's strongly associated in society with "having a good time". Alcohol is significantly more attractive because of all its socialisation associations. Also, nicotine is significantly more addictive than alcohol. https://www.health.com/condition/smoking/an-addiction-specialist-explains-nicotines-powerful-hold-over-cigarette-smokers https://www.health.com/condition/smoking/an-addiction-specia...

lovehashbrowns 7y ago
> Nicotine doesn't, in normal doses, produce a notably altered mental state Right, nicotine doesn't lead to drunk driving. So that makes vaping with nicotine a target for legislation, whereas alcohol is perfectly fine because it leads to a good time? Nicotine also doesn't lead to things like alcohol poisoning, or liver damage.
derefr 7y ago
Nicotine is increasingly being considered a nootropic/cognitive enhancer, and so is likely to become a drug of abuse as a "study drug" for college students, the way Ritalin is today.

apta 7y ago

> Isn't this going to make the argument for making teens smoke cigarettes so they can get access to vaping with nicotine? Then simply apply the same to cigarettes. Only current people who smoke can buy them, this paves the way to eliminate it altogether. But unfortunately, greed and money speak more than the health of people.