6 ms·

I have a similar rule of thumb: if it's not part of any culture's traditional cuisine, it's probably unhealthy. Long shelf life is not necessarily an issue; I'

I have a similar rule of thumb: if it's not part of any culture's traditional cuisine, it's probably unhealthy. Long shelf life is not necessarily an issue; I've eaten home-made canned cherries & plums that were 10 years old. Wine can also have a long shelf life (though most don't). But your point stands with the varietals optimized for appearance and tolerance to shipping as opposed to flavor. I've come to realize why many consider fruits and vegetables not very appealing is that almost all of what is available is tasteless.

trianglem 7y ago
I doubt that. Pretty much all of Northern European preserved meats are terrible for you.
- DiabloD3 7y ago
  Except they kind of aren't. Northern Europeans used the same techniques that many other cultures used across the globe: remove as much water content as possible, use herbs that have certain bacteria-inhibiting properties that also taste good, apply liberal salt. Everything is some evolution of this. You may wish to provide an example as to what you mean, because I suspect whatever you are referring to is more modern (ie, in the past 300 or so years).
  - roel_v 7y ago
    Are you talking about sausage? Because herbs aren't for preservation in sausages. The 'natural' preservative in sausages is celery, which has nitrate, which is then converted to nitrite during curing. 'Biological' sausage makers still do that, because this way they don't have to disclose nitrite additives, althougj their final product has more nitrite than properly dosed regular sausages. I still think there's no real problem with eating preserved meat, but the misguided worship of ye good old times needs to stop.
    - DiabloD3 7y ago
      The way sausage is made now is most certainly a modern invention, but nitrates and nitrites are not bad for you, nor toxic, in of itself as a family of chemicals. The problem in the modern industrial world is the use of artificial nitrates and nitrites present outside of plain sodium or potassium nitrite, which thankfully is starting to become more rare again. Also, there is no scientific link between nitrate consumption and cancer, only really awfully designed papers that somehow, and very unreasonably so, got published in journals.
      - mathrawka 7y ago
        What makes you say that all the papers linked here are awfully designed? https://progressreport.cancer.gov/prevention/nitrate https://progressreport.cancer.gov/prevention/nitrate
    - totalZero 7y ago
      You have to admit, it's pretty cool that celery in the right circumstances can ward off botulism.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
    Salt is definitely bad for your if you have high blood pressure (can dig up refs if required) and high blood pressure is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. Btween 35% and 40% of people have high blood pressure. For them, the consumption of "liberally salted" products is something to be avoided. Statistics from WHO: https://www.who.int/gho/ncd/risk_factors/blood_pressure_prevalence_text/en/ https://www.who.int/gho/ncd/risk_factors/blood_pressure_prev...
    - Broken_Hippo 7y ago
      Salt is one of those weird things. The salt studies were years ago, mostly, and haven't fully been redone with modern standards. It isn't that they were fully wrong, but it doesn't always have the ills one is warned about and the amounts of "healthy" salt might vary. Some of those folks with high blood pressure will be helped by a lower salt diet: Some will not and I'm not sure if there are consistent links saying it causes high blood pressure in healthy folks with normal blood pressure. The rest of the folks with high blood pressure aren't always helped - probably because there is more than one path to high blood pressure. Genetics, medicines, smoking, diet, lack of exercise, weight, and so on. Even in this subset, these meats aren't universally bad. If your salted meat is a smallish portion of your diet and you use comparatively little salt in the rest of your food, you might be just fine. It isn't that one thing is salty, but that the overall diet isn't too high in salt.
      - sjwright 7y ago
        And reducing salt has a devious unintended consequence: encouraging a diet higher in carbohydrates and fructose specifically—almost certainly worse than the salt for most people. Salt is one of the most effective ways to make healthy low carbohydrate foods (particularly fats and protein) palatable and compete with the sugar, corn and wheat that are so prevalent in unhealthy foods.
        trianglem 7y ago
        I find spicyness and sourness to be pretty good substitutes for salt and they make a lot of the blander (but healthy) vegetarian food taste fantastic.
- Cougher 7y ago
  I call your vagueity and raise you another vagueity: Pretty much all of meat-scare tactics are terrible for you.
lonelappde 7y ago
Canning is different because instead of modifying the structure of the food to make it stable, the structure of the environment is changed. Canning is still kind of a miracle.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
riffraff 7y ago
> I have a similar rule of thumb: if it's not part of any culture's traditional cuisine, it's probably unhealthy. A similar thing I heard often is "don't eat anything your grandma wouldn't recognize as food", and it seems sensible, but the problem with this reasoning is the blurry definition of "traditional" and our general ignorance of food history. For example, MSG is a fairly traditional ingredient in Japan, being used since 1909 (older than my grandma). Crisco would be considered the same in the US. But hydrogenated fats have known unhealthy effects, while MSG has been proven to be mostly innocuous. At the same time, candied fruit is super traditional in the mediterranean, and something like cassata siciliana[0] is candied fruit, marzipan etc.. basically sugar coated with sugar. Definitely unhealthy, though delicious and traditional. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassata
- totalZero 7y ago
  I wouldn't describe Crisco as part of any culture's traditional cuisine. Paula Deen once led me to believe that American grandmas use butter. Or was it lard? I don't know any grandmas from Japan, but I doubt they would consider MSG to be a traditional food. Rather, it is an additive that tastes like seaweed. To call it "traditional" in Japanese cuisine would be akin to calling maple flavoring "traditional" in Canadian cuisine.

trianglem 7y ago

I doubt that. Pretty much all of Northern European preserved meats are terrible for you.

DiabloD3 7y ago
Except they kind of aren't. Northern Europeans used the same techniques that many other cultures used across the globe: remove as much water content as possible, use herbs that have certain bacteria-inhibiting properties that also taste good, apply liberal salt. Everything is some evolution of this. You may wish to provide an example as to what you mean, because I suspect whatever you are referring to is more modern (ie, in the past 300 or so years).
- roel_v 7y ago
  Are you talking about sausage? Because herbs aren't for preservation in sausages. The 'natural' preservative in sausages is celery, which has nitrate, which is then converted to nitrite during curing. 'Biological' sausage makers still do that, because this way they don't have to disclose nitrite additives, althougj their final product has more nitrite than properly dosed regular sausages. I still think there's no real problem with eating preserved meat, but the misguided worship of ye good old times needs to stop.
  - DiabloD3 7y ago
    The way sausage is made now is most certainly a modern invention, but nitrates and nitrites are not bad for you, nor toxic, in of itself as a family of chemicals. The problem in the modern industrial world is the use of artificial nitrates and nitrites present outside of plain sodium or potassium nitrite, which thankfully is starting to become more rare again. Also, there is no scientific link between nitrate consumption and cancer, only really awfully designed papers that somehow, and very unreasonably so, got published in journals.
    - mathrawka 7y ago
      What makes you say that all the papers linked here are awfully designed? https://progressreport.cancer.gov/prevention/nitrate https://progressreport.cancer.gov/prevention/nitrate
  - totalZero 7y ago
    You have to admit, it's pretty cool that celery in the right circumstances can ward off botulism.
- YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
  Salt is definitely bad for your if you have high blood pressure (can dig up refs if required) and high blood pressure is a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. Btween 35% and 40% of people have high blood pressure. For them, the consumption of "liberally salted" products is something to be avoided. Statistics from WHO: https://www.who.int/gho/ncd/risk_factors/blood_pressure_prevalence_text/en/ https://www.who.int/gho/ncd/risk_factors/blood_pressure_prev...
  - Broken_Hippo 7y ago
    Salt is one of those weird things. The salt studies were years ago, mostly, and haven't fully been redone with modern standards. It isn't that they were fully wrong, but it doesn't always have the ills one is warned about and the amounts of "healthy" salt might vary. Some of those folks with high blood pressure will be helped by a lower salt diet: Some will not and I'm not sure if there are consistent links saying it causes high blood pressure in healthy folks with normal blood pressure. The rest of the folks with high blood pressure aren't always helped - probably because there is more than one path to high blood pressure. Genetics, medicines, smoking, diet, lack of exercise, weight, and so on. Even in this subset, these meats aren't universally bad. If your salted meat is a smallish portion of your diet and you use comparatively little salt in the rest of your food, you might be just fine. It isn't that one thing is salty, but that the overall diet isn't too high in salt.
    - sjwright 7y ago
      And reducing salt has a devious unintended consequence: encouraging a diet higher in carbohydrates and fructose specifically—almost certainly worse than the salt for most people. Salt is one of the most effective ways to make healthy low carbohydrate foods (particularly fats and protein) palatable and compete with the sugar, corn and wheat that are so prevalent in unhealthy foods.
      - trianglem 7y ago
        I find spicyness and sourness to be pretty good substitutes for salt and they make a lot of the blander (but healthy) vegetarian food taste fantastic.
Cougher 7y ago
I call your vagueity and raise you another vagueity: Pretty much all of meat-scare tactics are terrible for you.

lonelappde 7y ago

Canning is different because instead of modifying the structure of the food to make it stable, the structure of the environment is changed. Canning is still kind of a miracle.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

riffraff 7y ago

> I have a similar rule of thumb: if it's not part of any culture's traditional cuisine, it's probably unhealthy. A similar thing I heard often is "don't eat anything your grandma wouldn't recognize as food", and it seems sensible, but the problem with this reasoning is the blurry definition of "traditional" and our general ignorance of food history. For example, MSG is a fairly traditional ingredient in Japan, being used since 1909 (older than my grandma). Crisco would be considered the same in the US. But hydrogenated fats have known unhealthy effects, while MSG has been proven to be mostly innocuous. At the same time, candied fruit is super traditional in the mediterranean, and something like cassata siciliana[0] is candied fruit, marzipan etc.. basically sugar coated with sugar. Definitely unhealthy, though delicious and traditional. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassata https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassata

totalZero 7y ago
I wouldn't describe Crisco as part of any culture's traditional cuisine. Paula Deen once led me to believe that American grandmas use butter. Or was it lard? I don't know any grandmas from Japan, but I doubt they would consider MSG to be a traditional food. Rather, it is an additive that tastes like seaweed. To call it "traditional" in Japanese cuisine would be akin to calling maple flavoring "traditional" in Canadian cuisine.