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I happy that Oracle's goal is to make money, but they seem to only care about doing so in the short term. How much goodwill has Oracle blown with influential t

I happy that Oracle's goal is to make money, but they seem to only care about doing so in the short term. How much goodwill has Oracle blown with influential technical folk over what is really a very minor piece of software in the grand scheme of things? How much harder will it be for Oracle to promote a new technology/standard/whatever if the first thing everyone's thinking is "How are they going to screw me?"

rst 16y ago
Oracle believes they aren't selling to technical staff, but to non-technical management, and their sales processes are built around that belief. So far, it's working for them.
- bgurupra 16y ago
  and after working for ten years in one of the largest IT companies around, trust me that thing about selling to management works!At the end of the day it is the guy in suit who makes most decisions on buying software
  - fauigerzigerk 16y ago
    True, but the guy in the suit is influenced by people other than salesmen as well, most of all by hype. I remember when Java came onto the scene. Within a few years everyone was busy porting everything to Java. If something like that happens again, Oracle (and others) will have to write down billions. If I were Oracle, I would not want to provoke someone like Google to drop Java and really throw its weight behind a different mainstream applications platform. Oracle is playing a dangerous game right now. No army of salespeople will save them if and when the tide turns. These things are non linear.
    - bgurupra 16y ago
      I agree but I think that applies to technologies like Java that are insanely popular.For example I know my company bought a front end proxy software which kinda sucked , I asked the guy who in my opinion was the best front end proxy guy in the company to see if they took his opinion and he said no.So that decision was made way way high up than him so in this case the critical mass of tech experts were so low that the guy in suit did not even bother to consult the best tech guy he had
- ShabbyDoo 16y ago
  Agree although I wonder why Oracle then seems to care so much about Hudson -- It's quite un-enterprisey compared to competing build systems which include Sarbanes Oxley compliance features, etc.
samt 16y ago
This is what I do not get about Oracle. Are we (tech influencers, i guess) all commie hippies that can't make a damn difference at all to their long term business? Because the answer is either yes or no, and if there is a good possibility that it is no (Oracle's behavior is long term financially detrimental) you might think shareholders would care. But I do not see $ORCL shareholders marching in the street in protest about the apparent pillaging of the company's future. Where are the pitchforks?
- whatusername 16y ago
  See rst's comment. $ORCL doesn't sell "technology". It sell's a "Business Solution". // Which in itself is generally a good strategy for most startups to emulate.
  - samt 16y ago
    This is effective in the short term, yes. But "businessmen" do not create the future, they sell (or buy) the present. And the people creating the future are almost entirely aligned against the Oracle ecosystem.
    - protomyth 16y ago
      The next generation of business leaders for most companies is inthe same meetings with Oracle's salespeople. They will pick "solutions" for business over their IT staff's opinion. Oracle thinks like them, the IT staff doesn't.
    - whatusername 16y ago
      But most people don't want technology. I don't want a website or any complicated stuff - I want to communicate with and see what my friends are doing (facebook). I don't need an amzingly clustered spider and ranking engine, I just want to find sutff (google). I don't want to talk about feeds and speeds, I just want a computer that "works" (apple). I don't want to talk with some IT Nerd about how Open Source software is superior and about technological lock-in, I just want a positive ROI and want to grow my business (Oracle). // Oh - and HN's favourite -- I just want to play Bingo with my students.

rst 16y ago

Oracle believes they aren't selling to technical staff, but to non-technical management, and their sales processes are built around that belief. So far, it's working for them.

bgurupra 16y ago
and after working for ten years in one of the largest IT companies around, trust me that thing about selling to management works!At the end of the day it is the guy in suit who makes most decisions on buying software
- fauigerzigerk 16y ago
  True, but the guy in the suit is influenced by people other than salesmen as well, most of all by hype. I remember when Java came onto the scene. Within a few years everyone was busy porting everything to Java. If something like that happens again, Oracle (and others) will have to write down billions. If I were Oracle, I would not want to provoke someone like Google to drop Java and really throw its weight behind a different mainstream applications platform. Oracle is playing a dangerous game right now. No army of salespeople will save them if and when the tide turns. These things are non linear.
  - bgurupra 16y ago
    I agree but I think that applies to technologies like Java that are insanely popular.For example I know my company bought a front end proxy software which kinda sucked , I asked the guy who in my opinion was the best front end proxy guy in the company to see if they took his opinion and he said no.So that decision was made way way high up than him so in this case the critical mass of tech experts were so low that the guy in suit did not even bother to consult the best tech guy he had
ShabbyDoo 16y ago
Agree although I wonder why Oracle then seems to care so much about Hudson -- It's quite un-enterprisey compared to competing build systems which include Sarbanes Oxley compliance features, etc.

samt 16y ago

This is what I do not get about Oracle. Are we (tech influencers, i guess) all commie hippies that can't make a damn difference at all to their long term business? Because the answer is either yes or no, and if there is a good possibility that it is no (Oracle's behavior is long term financially detrimental) you might think shareholders would care. But I do not see $ORCL shareholders marching in the street in protest about the apparent pillaging of the company's future. Where are the pitchforks?

whatusername 16y ago
See rst's comment. $ORCL doesn't sell "technology". It sell's a "Business Solution". // Which in itself is generally a good strategy for most startups to emulate.
- samt 16y ago
  This is effective in the short term, yes. But "businessmen" do not create the future, they sell (or buy) the present. And the people creating the future are almost entirely aligned against the Oracle ecosystem.
  - protomyth 16y ago
    The next generation of business leaders for most companies is inthe same meetings with Oracle's salespeople. They will pick "solutions" for business over their IT staff's opinion. Oracle thinks like them, the IT staff doesn't.
  - whatusername 16y ago
    But most people don't want technology. I don't want a website or any complicated stuff - I want to communicate with and see what my friends are doing (facebook). I don't need an amzingly clustered spider and ranking engine, I just want to find sutff (google). I don't want to talk about feeds and speeds, I just want a computer that "works" (apple). I don't want to talk with some IT Nerd about how Open Source software is superior and about technological lock-in, I just want a positive ROI and want to grow my business (Oracle). // Oh - and HN's favourite -- I just want to play Bingo with my students.