5 ms·

Is it good for us to need more sleep in winter, or just lost time? Because we can fight this with bright lights and other means of advancing the circadian clock

Is it good for us to need more sleep in winter, or just lost time? Because we can fight this with bright lights and other means of advancing the circadian clock (anything that works for SAD).

luckydata 7y ago
"hacking" your body is recipe for doing damage. Just relax and do what evolution has built you to do, sleep a little more and get ready for spring.
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  Hunt prey on the savannah? Be food-insecure? Live to 60 if you're lucky? We need to understand these things, not just assume whatever is (prehistorically) natural is healthy. Humans didn't particularly evolve to live places where winter days are as short as they are in much of North America and Europe. We hacked our body by inventing clothing, shelter, and fire (fire/cooking is a huge digestive system hack). Sure, I guess there was a little adaption in skin tone to try to compensate for less Vitamin D, but then we invented supplement vitamins (so people of all skin tones can live healthy lives at high latitudes in winter). Hacking the body is probably what most makes us human, and it should be celebrated.
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    Cooking is very old and our digestive system has changed as a result. I don't think it's limited to the high latitudes.
- firethief 7y ago
  That settles it, I'm throwing away my eyeglasses and not doing anything a bear wouldn't do.
  - benibela 7y ago
    Far more people need eyeglasses now than a few decades ago. It is like a myopia epidemic. That implies that most people who need glasses now could see perfectly well without glasses, if they had grown up in a more natural lifestyle with more outdoor time and less screentime
  - luckydata 7y ago
    Flippant retort that completely misses the spirit and the substance of my comment. If you think there’s a way to safely “hack” your body to somehow undo evolution be my guest. As a culture with a proud tradition of ignoring nature and fucking ourselves up, we should rethink our approach to our bodies and health. If your body asks you for some rest, your first instinct shouldn’t be “what kind of meds can I take to avoid resting”, should be “how can I change my lifestyle so I can rest a little more.
    - firethief 7y ago
      When I asked the original question, I was looking for more than a poll; I was hoping someone had some insight into which of the two views to go with here (i.e. whether the evolutionary reasons for the sleepier-in-winter phenomenon are still applicable today or not). You've made it clear which side you're on, without any substantive argument yet. In hopes of eliciting one, I'll play devil's advocate. Food has always been scarcest in winter. The smart move is to invest less when risk/reward is poorer. A straightforward way for mammals to do that is to conserve energy by sleeping more in the winter. So, there's a reason I'd expect mammals to have evolved to sleep more when there's less light, but this reason is no longer applicable in modern societies. Right?
      - luckydata 7y ago
        That's somewhat pointless. You have an extremely complex system of hormones and circadian cycles that might have evolved for obsolete reasons, but you're still bound by it. It might be intellectually interesting to understand why (necessary even) but you're still better off avoiding the urge to "hack it".

Is it good for us to need more sleep in winter, or just lost time? Because we can fight this with bright lights and other means of advancing the circadian clock (anything that works for SAD).

luckydata 7y ago

"hacking" your body is recipe for doing damage. Just relax and do what evolution has built you to do, sleep a little more and get ready for spring.

Robotbeat 7y ago
Hunt prey on the savannah? Be food-insecure? Live to 60 if you're lucky? We need to understand these things, not just assume whatever is (prehistorically) natural is healthy. Humans didn't particularly evolve to live places where winter days are as short as they are in much of North America and Europe. We hacked our body by inventing clothing, shelter, and fire (fire/cooking is a huge digestive system hack). Sure, I guess there was a little adaption in skin tone to try to compensate for less Vitamin D, but then we invented supplement vitamins (so people of all skin tones can live healthy lives at high latitudes in winter). Hacking the body is probably what most makes us human, and it should be celebrated.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  Cooking is very old and our digestive system has changed as a result. I don't think it's limited to the high latitudes.
firethief 7y ago
That settles it, I'm throwing away my eyeglasses and not doing anything a bear wouldn't do.
- benibela 7y ago
  Far more people need eyeglasses now than a few decades ago. It is like a myopia epidemic. That implies that most people who need glasses now could see perfectly well without glasses, if they had grown up in a more natural lifestyle with more outdoor time and less screentime
- luckydata 7y ago
  Flippant retort that completely misses the spirit and the substance of my comment. If you think there’s a way to safely “hack” your body to somehow undo evolution be my guest. As a culture with a proud tradition of ignoring nature and fucking ourselves up, we should rethink our approach to our bodies and health. If your body asks you for some rest, your first instinct shouldn’t be “what kind of meds can I take to avoid resting”, should be “how can I change my lifestyle so I can rest a little more.
  - firethief 7y ago
    When I asked the original question, I was looking for more than a poll; I was hoping someone had some insight into which of the two views to go with here (i.e. whether the evolutionary reasons for the sleepier-in-winter phenomenon are still applicable today or not). You've made it clear which side you're on, without any substantive argument yet. In hopes of eliciting one, I'll play devil's advocate. Food has always been scarcest in winter. The smart move is to invest less when risk/reward is poorer. A straightforward way for mammals to do that is to conserve energy by sleeping more in the winter. So, there's a reason I'd expect mammals to have evolved to sleep more when there's less light, but this reason is no longer applicable in modern societies. Right?
    - luckydata 7y ago
      That's somewhat pointless. You have an extremely complex system of hormones and circadian cycles that might have evolved for obsolete reasons, but you're still bound by it. It might be intellectually interesting to understand why (necessary even) but you're still better off avoiding the urge to "hack it".