7 ms·

I am sure safe spaces are implemented in a variety of ways and with varying levels of competence. I would point out that "being opposed to sex-reassignment sur

by shkkmo 7y ago

I am sure safe spaces are implemented in a variety of ways and with varying levels of competence. I would point out that "being opposed to sex-reassignment surgery" is not so much an opinion as it is an ideology. I suspect many safe spaces would be far more open to including people who subscribe to that ideology if those people entered those discussions with a willingness to learn, a desire to honestly explore the pros and cons of that surgery, and a desire to share their own experiences of gender while also learning about other experiences of gender. That is not any easy thing to do and it is especially difficult to do for cisgender people who have little knowledge of the emotional land mines they can trigger by simply relying on the "common sense" they have learned over a lifetime. If there is an honest desire to be included in these discussions, I would highly recommend taking the time to listen and learn before you start sharing your viewpoint so you can understand the effects that your words will have.

brailsafe 7y ago
On this specific point, I agree with you, and generally have for some time, but am generally more skeptical than ever of the people on the apparently altruistic inclusivity side. It may be confirmation bias, but the kind of shit I've become aware of is ridiculous. Some examples are the backlash that Bret Weinstein got a few years ago at Evergren, the amount of "Fuck Terfs" that's spraypainted all over my neighborhood because women's shelters don't allow people who only identify as women to be the same as bio-sex females, and the banning of public libraries from inclusion of events like pride on the basis that they allow critics a space to speak. If the genuine desire to have a dialogue was there, it would be more obvious. Even some of my friends who live the social justice life seem to shut down when they don't have script readily indexed to respond to what they deem a threat in regular conversation. I wish this wasn't the case, because I am a liberal person, but believe these things need scrutiny as much as anything else. That's the only way people who are currently suppressed can then be elevated in a sustainable way. Here I'm trying to make distinctions between things like a gay person's human right to marry and a male's ability to identify as a woman and sue female oriented genital grooming places for discrimination on the basis that they have male parts. In one case that human right was denied arbitrarily based on the ideology of doctrine imbued culture and law.
TravHatesMe 7y ago
> a desire to honestly explore the pros and cons of that surgery What if these pros and cons were subjective, and someone decided that in the end, the cons outweighed the pros? Would you cast them as an evil person and exile them from your safe space? Would you accept their opinion, respectfully disagree, and move on? It seems that you must either abide by the ideology, censor yourself, or be exiled and called a nazi. This goes against everything that a university is about: free speech and open discussion. > cisgender people who have little knowledge of the emotional land mines they can trigger by simply relying on the "common sense" they have learned over a lifetime. Correct. Cisgendered people represent the majority of the population. Personally I have had maybe one or two opportunities to interact with a transgender person because they make up a tiny percentage of the population. That is not to say that I refuse to be respectful towards them, it shows that the majority of people don't get the chance to interact and learn what to avoid saying. Is everyone really required to learn all these new words / triggers / etc. in order to appease a tiny tiny fraction of the population? Genuinely curious to know your thoughts.
- danharaj 7y ago
  > Is everyone really required to learn all these new words / triggers / etc. in order to appease a tiny tiny fraction of the population? Every person you meet is a minority of 1 in 7 billion. Is it so hard for you to learn how to understand people? Do you have trouble with new words and concepts?
  - dctoedt 7y ago
    > Do you have trouble with new words and concepts? The trouble comes when a tiny minority (i) decides that the accepted meaning of common terms no longer suits their personal preference — I refer here to the use of they as a generic singular pronoun in formal language — and (ii) insists loudly that anyone who fails to conform to their new preference is being hurtful and disrespectful instead of merely precise.
    - danharaj 7y ago
      Can you use a concrete example to illustrate your claim?

by shkkmo 7y ago

brailsafe 7y ago

On this specific point, I agree with you, and generally have for some time, but am generally more skeptical than ever of the people on the apparently altruistic inclusivity side. It may be confirmation bias, but the kind of shit I've become aware of is ridiculous. Some examples are the backlash that Bret Weinstein got a few years ago at Evergren, the amount of "Fuck Terfs" that's spraypainted all over my neighborhood because women's shelters don't allow people who only identify as women to be the same as bio-sex females, and the banning of public libraries from inclusion of events like pride on the basis that they allow critics a space to speak. If the genuine desire to have a dialogue was there, it would be more obvious. Even some of my friends who live the social justice life seem to shut down when they don't have script readily indexed to respond to what they deem a threat in regular conversation. I wish this wasn't the case, because I am a liberal person, but believe these things need scrutiny as much as anything else. That's the only way people who are currently suppressed can then be elevated in a sustainable way. Here I'm trying to make distinctions between things like a gay person's human right to marry and a male's ability to identify as a woman and sue female oriented genital grooming places for discrimination on the basis that they have male parts. In one case that human right was denied arbitrarily based on the ideology of doctrine imbued culture and law.

TravHatesMe 7y ago

> a desire to honestly explore the pros and cons of that surgery What if these pros and cons were subjective, and someone decided that in the end, the cons outweighed the pros? Would you cast them as an evil person and exile them from your safe space? Would you accept their opinion, respectfully disagree, and move on? It seems that you must either abide by the ideology, censor yourself, or be exiled and called a nazi. This goes against everything that a university is about: free speech and open discussion. > cisgender people who have little knowledge of the emotional land mines they can trigger by simply relying on the "common sense" they have learned over a lifetime. Correct. Cisgendered people represent the majority of the population. Personally I have had maybe one or two opportunities to interact with a transgender person because they make up a tiny percentage of the population. That is not to say that I refuse to be respectful towards them, it shows that the majority of people don't get the chance to interact and learn what to avoid saying. Is everyone really required to learn all these new words / triggers / etc. in order to appease a tiny tiny fraction of the population? Genuinely curious to know your thoughts.

danharaj 7y ago
> Is everyone really required to learn all these new words / triggers / etc. in order to appease a tiny tiny fraction of the population? Every person you meet is a minority of 1 in 7 billion. Is it so hard for you to learn how to understand people? Do you have trouble with new words and concepts?
- dctoedt 7y ago
  > Do you have trouble with new words and concepts? The trouble comes when a tiny minority (i) decides that the accepted meaning of common terms no longer suits their personal preference — I refer here to the use of they as a generic singular pronoun in formal language — and (ii) insists loudly that anyone who fails to conform to their new preference is being hurtful and disrespectful instead of merely precise.
  - danharaj 7y ago
    Can you use a concrete example to illustrate your claim?