5 ms·

One option is to not fly american airlines (with a lower case a). The highest rated US airline is 3 out of 5 stars on Skytrax. As far as I understand, the reas

One option is to not fly american airlines (with a lower case a). The highest rated US airline is 3 out of 5 stars on Skytrax. As far as I understand, the reason for this is that foreign airlines are not allowed to fly US domestic routes, and most US people don't fly international which means they don't know that things could be better. It also seems like people in the US to a greater extent than other countries only cares about ticket price, which means that even if an airline wants to improve their quality they can't use it to compete because customers will simply not see them, since they sort by price on the travel site and pick the first one on the list.

jolmg 7y ago
> most people in the US only cares about ticket price, which means that even if an airline wants to improve their quality they can't use it to compete With regards to quality, do airlines in other places generally provide more bang for the buck or are they just generally more expensive than US flights to provide for the higher quality?
- lokedhs 7y ago
  To be honest, I don't know. It's hard to compare for the US domestic flights, since you have to decide on comparable routes. That said, flights throughout Asia at distances similar to US domestic flights tend to be reasonably cheap. I decided to make a comparison: Fly Singapore Airlines from Singapore to Hong Kong. This will cost you 225 USD in economy. A domestic US flight of the same distance would be San Francisco to Albuquerque on United Airlines. This flight will cost you 468 USD. So it seems to me that Singapore Airlines is able to provide better quality at much lower cost. Perhaps the US airlines simply don't have to be better because there is no one that shows it can be done?
  - doublement 7y ago
    Albuquerque isn't a major destination though. Flying to provincial cities is always expensive. A better comparison with about the same distance in the US is New York to Miami, which can be done nonstop for under $200 on Delta, or $135 on whatever "Frontier" is. EDIT: In fact you can go from New York to Las Vegas for under $200, round-trip, which is considerably farther.
    - ljw1001 7y ago
      yeah, but then you'd be Las Vegas.
  - heelix 7y ago
    The routes and dates really matter. I can fly from MSP to TPA (about 2.1k, about the same) for $28 USD. Now I wont argue Frontier airline is the same quality as Delta or some of the other majors... but airfare prices are really fungible.
    - lokedhs 7y ago
      Sure. With a budget airline I can get cheaper flights in Asia too. The aforementioned flight from Singapore to Hong Kong (1-8 March) is 87 USD on Jetstar. My point was that even though the regular flights are similarly priced in the US and Asia, the quality in the US is so much worse. I now see that my attempt at explaining this discrepancy had some flaws, but what other explanations do you suggest? The fact seems to be that even the best US Airlines are significantly worse than the ones in other places. When the best rated ones are hovering around average, there is something wrong.
    - ddoolin 7y ago
      I fly Frontier very regularly by quality choice and not by price. The fares are great, but the only other people flying the routes are United (awful awful) and Southwest (great but also pricey). More generally, I am not impressed by any U.S. major, discounting Southwest if they are considered. United, AA, and Delta (least) are pretty abysmal in their quality. It's probably important to be specific when I say "quality." By that I'm referring to ease of purchase, fair baggage prices, web/app UX, on/off-flight customer service including pilot communication with passengers, and even landings (as a pilot, I am absolutely judging beyond "did we get to the ground safely or not"). Price and seating are secondary for me, although I certainly understand why they are list-toppers for others.
      - sokoloff 7y ago
        I fly Delta a fair amount and (with status), Delta seems quite good to me. With even the lowest level of status, there are no bag fees for anything approaching typical luggage load. Their app is fine. Web ticketing seems good to me. Domestically, I can almost always buy an economy ticket and get upgraded to first. Even where I have to pay for it, the upgrades are reasonably priced. During irregular ops (weather typically), they’ve always gotten me there within 18 hours of scheduled. I agree SWA is also good and my only experience recently on United was also good (but in business class Mumbai->Newark, so atypical to say the least). I suspect flying up front on any of the majors is fine. Economy experience is driven by a race to the bottom price-wise, but if you want cheap travel, it’s readily available. If you want comfortable travel, that’s also on offer.
  - SkyMarshal 7y ago
    You probably need a larger sample to draw any conclusions, especially during a holiday season.
    - lokedhs 7y ago
      For anyone wanting to make similar comparisons: I checked returns flights between 1 and 8 March next year.
- FabHK 7y ago
  The Economist had an article in 2017 that argued that US airlines are worse, more expensive, and more profitable due to less competition than European (and I'd add Asian) airlines. https://www.economist.com/leaders/2017/04/22/a-lack-of-competition-explains-the-flaws-in-american-aviation https://www.economist.com/leaders/2017/04/22/a-lack-of-compe...
smileysteve 7y ago
> It also seems like most people in the US only cares about ticket price, Ryan Air, EasyJet, and other discount airlines suggest that Europe cares significantly more about price.
- lokedhs 7y ago
  That is true. And these airlines never show up in the top half of the airline rankings. However, when flying these airlines you don't expect good service, and no one is going to proclaim that “flying is always a bad experience” because these airlines exist.
  - skocznymroczny 7y ago
    Personally, I have good experience with those airlines. As long as you are aware of the rules (print your boarding pass at home or use mobile boarding pass, limited carry-on luggage, usually doesn't go to the main airport) it's a good experience. Airplanes are relatively new, they are clean inside and the staff is friendly.
distances 7y ago
> It also seems like people in the US to a greater extent than other countries only cares about ticket price, which means that even if an airline wants to improve their quality they can't use it to compete I'm not so sure people do it any different elsewhere. I mostly fly in Europe and have definitely never considered anything else than price and suitable flight times. I consider all airlines to provide the same standardized service. Yes I'd pick BA over Ryanair, but wouldn't pay extra for it.
- mahalol 7y ago
  In NZ we have two options for domestic travel Jetstar ( cheap and unreliable ) and Air NZ which usually costs more but it's better overall. A lot of people I know and myself choose to pay more for a better experience. It's not always about the race to the bottom in my opinion.
azeotropic 7y ago
I always assumed that this disconnect was because most domestic u.s. air travel is business related, so that in general, the traveler is not the customer.

jolmg 7y ago

> most people in the US only cares about ticket price, which means that even if an airline wants to improve their quality they can't use it to compete With regards to quality, do airlines in other places generally provide more bang for the buck or are they just generally more expensive than US flights to provide for the higher quality?

lokedhs 7y ago
To be honest, I don't know. It's hard to compare for the US domestic flights, since you have to decide on comparable routes. That said, flights throughout Asia at distances similar to US domestic flights tend to be reasonably cheap. I decided to make a comparison: Fly Singapore Airlines from Singapore to Hong Kong. This will cost you 225 USD in economy. A domestic US flight of the same distance would be San Francisco to Albuquerque on United Airlines. This flight will cost you 468 USD. So it seems to me that Singapore Airlines is able to provide better quality at much lower cost. Perhaps the US airlines simply don't have to be better because there is no one that shows it can be done?
- doublement 7y ago
  Albuquerque isn't a major destination though. Flying to provincial cities is always expensive. A better comparison with about the same distance in the US is New York to Miami, which can be done nonstop for under $200 on Delta, or $135 on whatever "Frontier" is. EDIT: In fact you can go from New York to Las Vegas for under $200, round-trip, which is considerably farther.
  - ljw1001 7y ago
    yeah, but then you'd be Las Vegas.
- heelix 7y ago
  The routes and dates really matter. I can fly from MSP to TPA (about 2.1k, about the same) for $28 USD. Now I wont argue Frontier airline is the same quality as Delta or some of the other majors... but airfare prices are really fungible.
  - lokedhs 7y ago
    Sure. With a budget airline I can get cheaper flights in Asia too. The aforementioned flight from Singapore to Hong Kong (1-8 March) is 87 USD on Jetstar. My point was that even though the regular flights are similarly priced in the US and Asia, the quality in the US is so much worse. I now see that my attempt at explaining this discrepancy had some flaws, but what other explanations do you suggest? The fact seems to be that even the best US Airlines are significantly worse than the ones in other places. When the best rated ones are hovering around average, there is something wrong.
  - ddoolin 7y ago
    I fly Frontier very regularly by quality choice and not by price. The fares are great, but the only other people flying the routes are United (awful awful) and Southwest (great but also pricey). More generally, I am not impressed by any U.S. major, discounting Southwest if they are considered. United, AA, and Delta (least) are pretty abysmal in their quality. It's probably important to be specific when I say "quality." By that I'm referring to ease of purchase, fair baggage prices, web/app UX, on/off-flight customer service including pilot communication with passengers, and even landings (as a pilot, I am absolutely judging beyond "did we get to the ground safely or not"). Price and seating are secondary for me, although I certainly understand why they are list-toppers for others.
    - sokoloff 7y ago
      I fly Delta a fair amount and (with status), Delta seems quite good to me. With even the lowest level of status, there are no bag fees for anything approaching typical luggage load. Their app is fine. Web ticketing seems good to me. Domestically, I can almost always buy an economy ticket and get upgraded to first. Even where I have to pay for it, the upgrades are reasonably priced. During irregular ops (weather typically), they’ve always gotten me there within 18 hours of scheduled. I agree SWA is also good and my only experience recently on United was also good (but in business class Mumbai->Newark, so atypical to say the least). I suspect flying up front on any of the majors is fine. Economy experience is driven by a race to the bottom price-wise, but if you want cheap travel, it’s readily available. If you want comfortable travel, that’s also on offer.
- SkyMarshal 7y ago
  You probably need a larger sample to draw any conclusions, especially during a holiday season.
  - lokedhs 7y ago
    For anyone wanting to make similar comparisons: I checked returns flights between 1 and 8 March next year.
FabHK 7y ago
The Economist had an article in 2017 that argued that US airlines are worse, more expensive, and more profitable due to less competition than European (and I'd add Asian) airlines. https://www.economist.com/leaders/2017/04/22/a-lack-of-competition-explains-the-flaws-in-american-aviation https://www.economist.com/leaders/2017/04/22/a-lack-of-compe...

smileysteve 7y ago

> It also seems like most people in the US only cares about ticket price, Ryan Air, EasyJet, and other discount airlines suggest that Europe cares significantly more about price.

lokedhs 7y ago
That is true. And these airlines never show up in the top half of the airline rankings. However, when flying these airlines you don't expect good service, and no one is going to proclaim that “flying is always a bad experience” because these airlines exist.
- skocznymroczny 7y ago
  Personally, I have good experience with those airlines. As long as you are aware of the rules (print your boarding pass at home or use mobile boarding pass, limited carry-on luggage, usually doesn't go to the main airport) it's a good experience. Airplanes are relatively new, they are clean inside and the staff is friendly.

distances 7y ago

> It also seems like people in the US to a greater extent than other countries only cares about ticket price, which means that even if an airline wants to improve their quality they can't use it to compete I'm not so sure people do it any different elsewhere. I mostly fly in Europe and have definitely never considered anything else than price and suitable flight times. I consider all airlines to provide the same standardized service. Yes I'd pick BA over Ryanair, but wouldn't pay extra for it.

mahalol 7y ago
In NZ we have two options for domestic travel Jetstar ( cheap and unreliable ) and Air NZ which usually costs more but it's better overall. A lot of people I know and myself choose to pay more for a better experience. It's not always about the race to the bottom in my opinion.

azeotropic 7y ago

I always assumed that this disconnect was because most domestic u.s. air travel is business related, so that in general, the traveler is not the customer.