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This vlog is more of a cheap advertisement for the "oh work for a startup it's great" nonsense school. I don't really understand why I would work in an environm

This vlog is more of a cheap advertisement for the "oh work for a startup it's great" nonsense school. I don't really understand why I would work in an environment where the pay is shit and the issued stocks can be re-classified or diluted or just taken away by lay-offs. Makes no sense.

Tempest1981 7y ago
There is a medium-high probability of what you mentioned. But for many, it's about having a (tiny) shot at changing the world. It can be a thrill. You are also a bigger fish in a small pond - more responsibility, no bureaucracy. And usually the pay is enough to live modestly on.
- thecleaner 7y ago
  > But for many, it's about having a (tiny) shot at changing the world. It can be a thrill. Honestly this seems like Silicon Valley bait for getting people for work in an abusive mismanaged environment. And I hope most people stopped drinking the Kool Aid. > You are also a bigger fish in a small pond - more responsibility, no bureaucracy This I can understand, I mean if you are talented enough that you don't want to jump through corporate hoops, then it makes sense. But I would only do it for a company that has competitors. Atleast that way if you do well and get mistreated (because some founder assumes that employees are sheep), then you can always take your talent to a competitor. Better if you have the ability to take others with you.
  - nikki93 7y ago
    There are a lot of envs that are not abusive. Having your workplace generalized and called abusive on the internet when it's not in real life, definitely feels abusive, however. I've seen people join abusive personal relationships with worse pay than startups, it happens with friendships and marriages everywhere. I've also seen very bad relationships between founders and teams that have caused lots of pain... The only way this is worthwhile is if you really believe in some product + are working with non-abusive people you trust and have known for a while + actually get paid enough to live a comfortable life. You can't join a startup thinking that the world owes you and will make you rich and the startup is how it will do that. But I just hope people reading your comment don't think that any small group of friends working on something is abusive to new folks that join.
    - thecleaner 7y ago
      The main question is to ask what can you make out of it as an employee assuming the worst. I know full well that there are several great people working in tech as founders. I also believe that ambitious people who really think they are fantastic at delivering products can and should try the testy waters of startups knowing full well what the true market value is of the skillset that they are building. I would never ever join a startup where your market value keeps degrading. Yet many people join startups as employees with mostly worthless stock and continue to do meaningless work that doesn't help increase their market value because they are sold the Kool Aid of "belief in product" and "changing the world" or whatever so hard. As an employee, it is important to stay mindful of your market value and where it is headed.
      - nikki93 7y ago
        Yeah this definitely makes sense. I think the startup work you do should build your personal portfolio. Open source (like with an actual open source license like MIT and no weird edge cases) work helps a ton too. I think also being paid in actual cash is actually pretty good and you don't have to make weird money bets.
- SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
  > But for many, it's about having a (tiny) shot at changing the world. It can be a thrill. Yes he had a shot at changing the world, at Palantir. I'm sure that it's a thrill, but it's not necessarily a benefit to the world.
garry 7y ago
I started here on Hacker News as a software engineer. I learned that I could build software for others, ship it and release it. I did end up taking the venture path, and now help others on that path. The key here is that magic can be created by people, and I'm not that different than a lot of people on this site. I also got very lucky, and I'm thankful for that. Startups are hard, and most fail, and most startup stock is worthless. But if you read my post, I'm trying to point people to the fact that the deeper lesson is to be able to learn to ship to real customers quickly. Anyway, I appreciate the feedback. It's shockingly hard to get something that is both nuanced and clickable in video format, but I will keep trying to get better.
- dzink 7y ago
  The first time we met, you had just announced Initialized and had hired two people to work for you. I asked one question about it hoping to see if you guys were hiring more and send a resume, and you said something along the lines of: “Yes, one of the perks of raising money is you get to hire your friends”.
- throwaway2048 7y ago
  I doubt many people have a passion for shipping to customers quickly.
  - garry 7y ago
    You're right, they don't. It's my hope that more people do, though.
  - csa 7y ago
    I am saddened by this, since the “shipping to customers quickly (and iterating on the product based on feedback)” is the foundation of a successful growth economy. There are so many gross inefficiencies in my market (US) that could be successfully addressed if more people has this type of orientation.
- 6gvONxR4sf7o 7y ago
  > But if you read my post, I'm trying to point people to the fact that the deeper lesson is to be able to learn to ship to real customers quickly. The video title is "My $200M mistake" and you spend 90% of it talking about the money. In what way is the point of this learning to ship to real customers quickly?

Tempest1981 7y ago

There is a medium-high probability of what you mentioned. But for many, it's about having a (tiny) shot at changing the world. It can be a thrill. You are also a bigger fish in a small pond - more responsibility, no bureaucracy. And usually the pay is enough to live modestly on.

thecleaner 7y ago
> But for many, it's about having a (tiny) shot at changing the world. It can be a thrill. Honestly this seems like Silicon Valley bait for getting people for work in an abusive mismanaged environment. And I hope most people stopped drinking the Kool Aid. > You are also a bigger fish in a small pond - more responsibility, no bureaucracy This I can understand, I mean if you are talented enough that you don't want to jump through corporate hoops, then it makes sense. But I would only do it for a company that has competitors. Atleast that way if you do well and get mistreated (because some founder assumes that employees are sheep), then you can always take your talent to a competitor. Better if you have the ability to take others with you.
- nikki93 7y ago
  There are a lot of envs that are not abusive. Having your workplace generalized and called abusive on the internet when it's not in real life, definitely feels abusive, however. I've seen people join abusive personal relationships with worse pay than startups, it happens with friendships and marriages everywhere. I've also seen very bad relationships between founders and teams that have caused lots of pain... The only way this is worthwhile is if you really believe in some product + are working with non-abusive people you trust and have known for a while + actually get paid enough to live a comfortable life. You can't join a startup thinking that the world owes you and will make you rich and the startup is how it will do that. But I just hope people reading your comment don't think that any small group of friends working on something is abusive to new folks that join.
  - thecleaner 7y ago
    The main question is to ask what can you make out of it as an employee assuming the worst. I know full well that there are several great people working in tech as founders. I also believe that ambitious people who really think they are fantastic at delivering products can and should try the testy waters of startups knowing full well what the true market value is of the skillset that they are building. I would never ever join a startup where your market value keeps degrading. Yet many people join startups as employees with mostly worthless stock and continue to do meaningless work that doesn't help increase their market value because they are sold the Kool Aid of "belief in product" and "changing the world" or whatever so hard. As an employee, it is important to stay mindful of your market value and where it is headed.
    - nikki93 7y ago
      Yeah this definitely makes sense. I think the startup work you do should build your personal portfolio. Open source (like with an actual open source license like MIT and no weird edge cases) work helps a ton too. I think also being paid in actual cash is actually pretty good and you don't have to make weird money bets.
SideburnsOfDoom 7y ago
> But for many, it's about having a (tiny) shot at changing the world. It can be a thrill. Yes he had a shot at changing the world, at Palantir. I'm sure that it's a thrill, but it's not necessarily a benefit to the world.

garry 7y ago

I started here on Hacker News as a software engineer. I learned that I could build software for others, ship it and release it. I did end up taking the venture path, and now help others on that path. The key here is that magic can be created by people, and I'm not that different than a lot of people on this site. I also got very lucky, and I'm thankful for that. Startups are hard, and most fail, and most startup stock is worthless. But if you read my post, I'm trying to point people to the fact that the deeper lesson is to be able to learn to ship to real customers quickly. Anyway, I appreciate the feedback. It's shockingly hard to get something that is both nuanced and clickable in video format, but I will keep trying to get better.

dzink 7y ago
The first time we met, you had just announced Initialized and had hired two people to work for you. I asked one question about it hoping to see if you guys were hiring more and send a resume, and you said something along the lines of: “Yes, one of the perks of raising money is you get to hire your friends”.
throwaway2048 7y ago
I doubt many people have a passion for shipping to customers quickly.
- garry 7y ago
  You're right, they don't. It's my hope that more people do, though.
- csa 7y ago
  I am saddened by this, since the “shipping to customers quickly (and iterating on the product based on feedback)” is the foundation of a successful growth economy. There are so many gross inefficiencies in my market (US) that could be successfully addressed if more people has this type of orientation.
6gvONxR4sf7o 7y ago
> But if you read my post, I'm trying to point people to the fact that the deeper lesson is to be able to learn to ship to real customers quickly. The video title is "My $200M mistake" and you spend 90% of it talking about the money. In what way is the point of this learning to ship to real customers quickly?