6 ms·

What racism is there to fight in Japan? Are you sure you aren't just pulling stock arguments out here?

fennecfoxen 7y ago
Well, there's the one when you're not ethnically Japanese, for a start... not sure how common that is, but dealing with racism is certainly a thing when that happens.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  Clearly not a problem for the ethnic Japanese refusing to go to school, it seems like it's just been jammed into this ignorant argument from a template.
  - moufestaphio 7y ago
    Goes deeper than just that. There is being born in the wrong 'caste': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin Or the many Koreans who are in 'limbo' (zainichi) after WW2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans_in_Japan
elhudy 7y ago
Anecdotally, I visited a friend in Hokkaido for a couple weeks and during my time there (as a white non-Japanese speaking person) I was kicked out of two restaurants upon entry for not being Japanese. Racism exists everywhere.
- Joe-Z 7y ago
  Yes, racism exists. That was not GP‘s point though. The point was that enough kids in Japan are victims of racism that it gets listed as one of the top reasons why so many pupils don‘t want to go to school anymore. I also highly doubt that there are so many non-Japanese kids in local japanese schools that this is a major problem.
  - mfoy_ 7y ago
    Well there certainly won't be so many non-ethnic / non-Japanese kids in local Japanese schools with that attitude.
- mlvljr 7y ago
  kicked out -- was that Karate kicks? :)
the_af 7y ago
Not an expert in Japan's culture, but from what I read about it, there's some racism towards Japanese with Korean ancestors, and apparently this forces some people to hide their heritage. There was also an article -- even posted on HN, I think! -- that some family names linked to historically lowbrow jobs (the "untouchable", such as undertakers and butchers) still carry some sort of stigma. Not their current occupations of course, but the stigma historically attached to those families.
- coldacid 7y ago
  Burakumin. The Japanese government has been trying to end discrimination against them since the early Meiji era and yet it still persists to this day nearly 150 years later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin
PeterisP 7y ago
For a random example of racism in Japan's shools that simply don't accept that other ethnicities exist, here's a story about students required to dye their hair black in order to match everyone else - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/27/japanese-student-sues-over-schools-order-to-dye-hair-black https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/27/japanese-stude... - in this particular situation the student had naturally brown hair, which most likely means a non-Japanese parent, and was bullied by the authorities because of that.
- concerned_user 7y ago
  But it is not racism, it would be if they had to change hair color because of their race, but they would all the same require japanese person to dye their hair. If it is not based on race it is not racism, this case it is based on hair color so its "hair color"-ism I guess.
- Iv 7y ago
  The mixed Japanese-African girl I know was forced to straighten her hair because her natural hair is "extravagant".
  - claudeganon 7y ago
    My mother-in-law, who was fully Japanese but had naturally, slightly curly hair, was accused by her school of getting a perm, in violation of school rules, until her parents provided photographs proving it had always been curly.
moufestaphio 7y ago
It's not exactly a secret. Japan is super racist. They outright will often refuse services to foreigners/non-ethnic Japanese. Here's a quick few results: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Ethnic_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Ethnic_... https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/2123539/no-chinese-why-anti-china-racism-so-big-japan https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/2123539/no-c... https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/Japan-Update/No-foreigners-allowed-Survey-shows-heavy-discrimination-in-Japan https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/Japan-Update/No-forei...
- claudeganon 7y ago
  Not only that, but it’s all more or less entirely legal. There’s very little in the way of civil rights protections like there are in the US, and what does exist is subject to the large, conservative leaning power of the judiciary.
  - giggles_giggles 7y ago
    EDITED Getting downvoted for asking an honest question and trying to understand something.. I wish I could delete my account because I have an impulse control disorder and sometimes I accidentally antagonize the hivemind and then feel bad all day, but I can't, because Hacker News doesn't give me the power to do that, so I keep logging in for some reason. Neat! Could someone please ban me? Delete my comments? Please?
    - danans 7y ago
      > Why does Japan stand out? Because they are industrialized? Sure. They should be compared to countries with similar levels of wealth per capita, since that wealth, in theory, should enable them to rise above what you describe in Nigeria. But that said, what you quoted the Fulani man saying is frequently expressed in Europe or the Anglosphere today, but with the target being a non-Christian religion.
      - deleted 7y ago
MadWombat 7y ago
"The Ainu have historically suffered from economic and social discrimination throughout Japan that continues to this day. The Japanese Government as well as people since contact with the Ainu, have in large part regarded them as a dirty, backwards and a primitive people." Reminds you of anything or anyone?
Iv 7y ago
That's the interesting thing. As a white man, I thought "Oh, they are actually kind to foreigners!" and then I helped raise a black kid in Japan. I remember a guy who helped us install in the village when we moved to the countryside. He had lived in the US for a while and told us "That's nice to have foreigners! I love foreigners! Especially white ones!" Yeah, as a white guy, you dont get to experience much racism, doesnt mean it is not there.

Well, there's the one when you're not ethnically Japanese, for a start... not sure how common that is, but dealing with racism is certainly a thing when that happens.

microcolonel 7y ago
Clearly not a problem for the ethnic Japanese refusing to go to school, it seems like it's just been jammed into this ignorant argument from a template.
- moufestaphio 7y ago
  Goes deeper than just that. There is being born in the wrong 'caste': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin Or the many Koreans who are in 'limbo' (zainichi) after WW2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans_in_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreans_in_Japan

elhudy 7y ago

Anecdotally, I visited a friend in Hokkaido for a couple weeks and during my time there (as a white non-Japanese speaking person) I was kicked out of two restaurants upon entry for not being Japanese. Racism exists everywhere.

Joe-Z 7y ago
Yes, racism exists. That was not GP‘s point though. The point was that enough kids in Japan are victims of racism that it gets listed as one of the top reasons why so many pupils don‘t want to go to school anymore. I also highly doubt that there are so many non-Japanese kids in local japanese schools that this is a major problem.
- mfoy_ 7y ago
  Well there certainly won't be so many non-ethnic / non-Japanese kids in local Japanese schools with that attitude.
mlvljr 7y ago
kicked out -- was that Karate kicks? :)

the_af 7y ago

Not an expert in Japan's culture, but from what I read about it, there's some racism towards Japanese with Korean ancestors, and apparently this forces some people to hide their heritage. There was also an article -- even posted on HN, I think! -- that some family names linked to historically lowbrow jobs (the "untouchable", such as undertakers and butchers) still carry some sort of stigma. Not their current occupations of course, but the stigma historically attached to those families.

coldacid 7y ago
Burakumin. The Japanese government has been trying to end discrimination against them since the early Meiji era and yet it still persists to this day nearly 150 years later. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burakumin

PeterisP 7y ago

For a random example of racism in Japan's shools that simply don't accept that other ethnicities exist, here's a story about students required to dye their hair black in order to match everyone else - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/27/japanese-student-sues-over-schools-order-to-dye-hair-black https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/27/japanese-stude... - in this particular situation the student had naturally brown hair, which most likely means a non-Japanese parent, and was bullied by the authorities because of that.

concerned_user 7y ago
But it is not racism, it would be if they had to change hair color because of their race, but they would all the same require japanese person to dye their hair. If it is not based on race it is not racism, this case it is based on hair color so its "hair color"-ism I guess.
Iv 7y ago
The mixed Japanese-African girl I know was forced to straighten her hair because her natural hair is "extravagant".
- claudeganon 7y ago
  My mother-in-law, who was fully Japanese but had naturally, slightly curly hair, was accused by her school of getting a perm, in violation of school rules, until her parents provided photographs proving it had always been curly.

moufestaphio 7y ago

It's not exactly a secret. Japan is super racist. They outright will often refuse services to foreigners/non-ethnic Japanese. Here's a quick few results: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Ethnic_issues https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_Japan#Ethnic_... https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/2123539/no-chinese-why-anti-china-racism-so-big-japan https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/politics/article/2123539/no-c... https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/Japan-Update/No-foreigners-allowed-Survey-shows-heavy-discrimination-in-Japan https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/Japan-Update/No-forei...

claudeganon 7y ago
Not only that, but it’s all more or less entirely legal. There’s very little in the way of civil rights protections like there are in the US, and what does exist is subject to the large, conservative leaning power of the judiciary.
- giggles_giggles 7y ago
  EDITED Getting downvoted for asking an honest question and trying to understand something.. I wish I could delete my account because I have an impulse control disorder and sometimes I accidentally antagonize the hivemind and then feel bad all day, but I can't, because Hacker News doesn't give me the power to do that, so I keep logging in for some reason. Neat! Could someone please ban me? Delete my comments? Please?
  - danans 7y ago
    > Why does Japan stand out? Because they are industrialized? Sure. They should be compared to countries with similar levels of wealth per capita, since that wealth, in theory, should enable them to rise above what you describe in Nigeria. But that said, what you quoted the Fulani man saying is frequently expressed in Europe or the Anglosphere today, but with the target being a non-Christian religion.
    - deleted 7y ago

MadWombat 7y ago

"The Ainu have historically suffered from economic and social discrimination throughout Japan that continues to this day. The Japanese Government as well as people since contact with the Ainu, have in large part regarded them as a dirty, backwards and a primitive people." Reminds you of anything or anyone?

Iv 7y ago

That's the interesting thing. As a white man, I thought "Oh, they are actually kind to foreigners!" and then I helped raise a black kid in Japan. I remember a guy who helped us install in the village when we moved to the countryside. He had lived in the US for a while and told us "That's nice to have foreigners! I love foreigners! Especially white ones!" Yeah, as a white guy, you dont get to experience much racism, doesnt mean it is not there.