3 ms·

I understand why people are willing to defend it or make apologies for it, but there really are some lessons to be learned from the mistakes it made, and dismis

by xscott 7y ago

I understand why people are willing to defend it or make apologies for it, but there really are some lessons to be learned from the mistakes it made, and dismissing legitimate criticism just ignores the opportunity.

BiteCode_dev 7y ago
I agree, there is a long list of things I would change in Python. And believe me when I say people involved in the community listen to this very carefully. This is why we had Python 3 in the first place. Because text handling was such a cause of pain. This is why we have type hints in the first place. Because big projects using Python felt let down. And Python 3 and type hints are also a huge source of criticism (I was the first one to do so). It's never ending. People will complain. People will be unhappy. Things, also, will be imperfect, as we are limited in resources and are submitted to many constraints. Not to mention taste and opinion, that are used to request changes. But I'm not answering to dismiss valid concerns. I'm answering because as a very experienced Python dev, I now have a good grasp of what is due to culture, lack of experience, or a real deal. E.G: - := forcing parenthesis. Has not been a real problem in my experience, at least as of today. - Packaging still more complicated that necessary. A real problem in the field (although 50% of it is a teaching problem: https://twitter.com/bitecode_dev/status/1188130895653416966 https://twitter.com/bitecode_dev/status/1188130895653416966).
- FartyMcFarter 7y ago
  > Because big projects using Python felt let down. Why big projects started using Python in the first place is a very good question, given that this language had not been designed for them...
  - goto11 7y ago
    Because big projects often start as small projects?
- avip 7y ago
  I have a mantra, which this thread engraves so well: People always complain, and developers are the worse If only people cared for fellow human beings, or earth, as much as they care for esoteric Wulrus operations in this or that language.
  - xscott 7y ago
    I suspect it's healthier to judge a few misfeatures in a programming language than to judge all developers, or people as a whole. I'm really very optimistic about the future of humanity, but less so about the future of Python :-)
    - avip 7y ago
      Fair enough. Make it a longbet - python vs. human race, who's going down first.
      - xscott 7y ago
        I bet neither will go down, but the human race will improve! Seriously, things are getting better - it's just that paying attention to what needs fixing is how engineers contribute to the progress.

by xscott 7y ago

BiteCode_dev 7y ago

I agree, there is a long list of things I would change in Python. And believe me when I say people involved in the community listen to this very carefully. This is why we had Python 3 in the first place. Because text handling was such a cause of pain. This is why we have type hints in the first place. Because big projects using Python felt let down. And Python 3 and type hints are also a huge source of criticism (I was the first one to do so). It's never ending. People will complain. People will be unhappy. Things, also, will be imperfect, as we are limited in resources and are submitted to many constraints. Not to mention taste and opinion, that are used to request changes. But I'm not answering to dismiss valid concerns. I'm answering because as a very experienced Python dev, I now have a good grasp of what is due to culture, lack of experience, or a real deal. E.G: - := forcing parenthesis. Has not been a real problem in my experience, at least as of today. - Packaging still more complicated that necessary. A real problem in the field (although 50% of it is a teaching problem: https://twitter.com/bitecode_dev/status/1188130895653416966 https://twitter.com/bitecode_dev/status/1188130895653416966).

FartyMcFarter 7y ago
> Because big projects using Python felt let down. Why big projects started using Python in the first place is a very good question, given that this language had not been designed for them...
- goto11 7y ago
  Because big projects often start as small projects?
avip 7y ago
I have a mantra, which this thread engraves so well: People always complain, and developers are the worse If only people cared for fellow human beings, or earth, as much as they care for esoteric Wulrus operations in this or that language.
- xscott 7y ago
  I suspect it's healthier to judge a few misfeatures in a programming language than to judge all developers, or people as a whole. I'm really very optimistic about the future of humanity, but less so about the future of Python :-)
  - avip 7y ago
    Fair enough. Make it a longbet - python vs. human race, who's going down first.
    - xscott 7y ago
      I bet neither will go down, but the human race will improve! Seriously, things are getting better - it's just that paying attention to what needs fixing is how engineers contribute to the progress.