5 ms·

If you're reading this and thinking about trying microdosing, let me summarize for you - unless you have chronic depression or anxiety, this isn't really worth

If you're reading this and thinking about trying microdosing, let me summarize for you - unless you have chronic depression or anxiety, this isn't really worth it. You'll have a harder time actually focusing and getting work done. If you do have chronic depression / anxiety though, and it's affecting your life in a persistently detrimental way, it might be a really effective Aspirin against it (i.e. it's not going to Cure it, but it will relieve it). LSD does this by interrupting Rumination, the shitty thoughts in the very back of your mind that loop during depression / anxiety. Breaking this cycle lets you have some relief, and might help you get your head above water enough that you can start to address some of the Bigger Problems, without some of the pretty significant drawbacks of SSRIs (as well as working nearly instantly, as opposed to having a month+ ramp-up)

dylan604 7y ago
The looping of shitty thoughts is the exact thing I have to fight against in a psychedelic state. It's weird how things like this seem to work out. Giving speed to a person with attention issues, yet to a normal person it makes their thoughts run rampant.
- OGWhales 7y ago
  I always thought it was curious seeing a friend with ADHD taking adderall seemed to calm him while it had the opposite effect on me.
pmoriarty 7y ago
By definition, microdosing is taking a sub-perceptual dose. So if you're noticing any effect, like having a hard time focusing, you're taking more than a microdose.
- mlyle 7y ago
  Sub-perceptual in what sense? In escalating order... You can't tell any obvious distortion in your perception of reality? [This is the meaning I usually hear discussed]. You can't look back over the past day and say "hm, that was different from when I was not dosed-- I was a little less effective". You can't tell any difference over the past 6 mos of microdosing? You can't tell any difference between a microdosed and placebo group in an RCT? There is no difference at all between microdosed and placebo in reality? In the end, if we can't notice some difference somehow, why bother? ;)
  - LocalH 7y ago
    You're not supposed to notice any perceptual differences while the experience is happening. The whole point of microdosing is to experience the positive benefits and changes, over time, without any of the overt psychoactive effects commonly associated with larger doses of psychedelics.
    - mlyle 7y ago
      And if someone tries microdosing for a few days and decides that, in retrospect, they were a little less effective and focused in their work, like the great-grandparent suggests? I don't think the immediate criticism of (paraphrased) "It's not microdosing if you notice a fall in work efficacy, because you noticed it" is fair. Sounds like you agree the threshold of microdosing is defined by the first question, rather than the subsequent ones. That is, one wants a dose that doesn't make a difference moment to moment and doesn't cause overt psychoactive effects, but does cause some degree of effect noticeable in retrospect.
      - LocalH 7y ago
        That's certainly entirely possible. Everyone's neurochemistry is different. I'm not sure that "a few days" is enough to truly assess the situation, but it's a good start. Perhaps a slightly different dosing regimen may still benefit such a person. As well, it's entirely possible that abstinence is best for that person. No way to know that going in, though. And yes, I do. I also believe that approximate threshold doses (enough to feel a mild "elevated" state, but not to the level of warping one's perception of reality) have benefit as well. The big trips do too, but a threshold dose or less can allow one to still be able to function in a normal way, just with an increased sharpness of mind and an ability to focus easier. I'm speaking from personal experience here, of course. The thing about psychedelics is that YMMV, which is why being mindful of what we do know about psychedelics is so important.
playing_colours 7y ago
What about some research that microdosing increases neuroplasticity? It may be a good benefit, if doctors manage to combine it with therapies for adults and they gradually rewire their brain addressing some inefficiencies, PSTD, or even brain damage. Sorry, if I sound naive and anti-scientifical, I have no personal evidence for that and am not a neuroscientist. I recently was impressed by the stories in the book “The brain’s way of healing”.
- mikekchar 7y ago
  > It may be a good benefit It may. Or it may not. That's really the problem with acting on research that isn't commonly accepted. I still run into people who believe that cooking in aluminium pots causes Alzheimer's. Since the result appeared in a respected paper and was widely reported on, it lodged in the minds of the public. Later retractions had difficulty dislodging the idea. Especially if someone has a particular bias, it's easy to find an amount of research that confirms that bias (confirmation bias). When you present the material that you have found, it can be incredibly impressive. I have found that if someone has an incredibly impressive list of research that backs up a theory that isn't widely accepted, it is almost always a case of confirmation bias. Of course, sometimes the widely accepted notion has just not moved in that direction yet. The problem is that without being a true expert in the field it's essentially impossible to tell which is which. It is an unfortunate truth when studying very complex systems. Progress is made slowly with many arms reaching in different directions. People make promising leads, only to eventually find they don't lead anywhere. We often get stuck not knowing where to go. Sometimes when we find the answer, it turns out it was sitting under our noses all the time. It's just the way it goes.
kortex 7y ago
Add ADHD to that list. I and a few friends with similar meatware stacks have found it very effective. I don't have hard data, but after one 3 month period I found a significant correlation with micro days and hours worked, number of LOC committed, and quality of that code. I think anyone neurodivergent stands to benefit, and if they are not, well, sounds like they have a decent handle on life already. > Breaking this cycle lets you have some relief +1 Edit: That's not to say people living a content life would not benefit from doses, micro or otherwise. It's just probably much harder to detect in a clinical setting.
OGWhales 7y ago
I found microdosing greatly improved my productivity and ability to focus. I think it may be dose dependent and one would have to dial in to their appropriate dose. Also, the type of work one is doing may be an important factor.
- anaisbetts 7y ago
  In my experience, microdosing will do a great job at convincing you that you are extra productive and creative, but you don't end up actually getting anything done - you're just way more excited about it. Being excited is a Good Thing, but imho there are more effective ways to be productive

dylan604 7y ago

The looping of shitty thoughts is the exact thing I have to fight against in a psychedelic state. It's weird how things like this seem to work out. Giving speed to a person with attention issues, yet to a normal person it makes their thoughts run rampant.

OGWhales 7y ago
I always thought it was curious seeing a friend with ADHD taking adderall seemed to calm him while it had the opposite effect on me.

pmoriarty 7y ago

By definition, microdosing is taking a sub-perceptual dose. So if you're noticing any effect, like having a hard time focusing, you're taking more than a microdose.

mlyle 7y ago
Sub-perceptual in what sense? In escalating order... You can't tell any obvious distortion in your perception of reality? [This is the meaning I usually hear discussed]. You can't look back over the past day and say "hm, that was different from when I was not dosed-- I was a little less effective". You can't tell any difference over the past 6 mos of microdosing? You can't tell any difference between a microdosed and placebo group in an RCT? There is no difference at all between microdosed and placebo in reality? In the end, if we can't notice some difference somehow, why bother? ;)
- LocalH 7y ago
  You're not supposed to notice any perceptual differences while the experience is happening. The whole point of microdosing is to experience the positive benefits and changes, over time, without any of the overt psychoactive effects commonly associated with larger doses of psychedelics.
  - mlyle 7y ago
    And if someone tries microdosing for a few days and decides that, in retrospect, they were a little less effective and focused in their work, like the great-grandparent suggests? I don't think the immediate criticism of (paraphrased) "It's not microdosing if you notice a fall in work efficacy, because you noticed it" is fair. Sounds like you agree the threshold of microdosing is defined by the first question, rather than the subsequent ones. That is, one wants a dose that doesn't make a difference moment to moment and doesn't cause overt psychoactive effects, but does cause some degree of effect noticeable in retrospect.
    - LocalH 7y ago
      That's certainly entirely possible. Everyone's neurochemistry is different. I'm not sure that "a few days" is enough to truly assess the situation, but it's a good start. Perhaps a slightly different dosing regimen may still benefit such a person. As well, it's entirely possible that abstinence is best for that person. No way to know that going in, though. And yes, I do. I also believe that approximate threshold doses (enough to feel a mild "elevated" state, but not to the level of warping one's perception of reality) have benefit as well. The big trips do too, but a threshold dose or less can allow one to still be able to function in a normal way, just with an increased sharpness of mind and an ability to focus easier. I'm speaking from personal experience here, of course. The thing about psychedelics is that YMMV, which is why being mindful of what we do know about psychedelics is so important.

playing_colours 7y ago

What about some research that microdosing increases neuroplasticity? It may be a good benefit, if doctors manage to combine it with therapies for adults and they gradually rewire their brain addressing some inefficiencies, PSTD, or even brain damage. Sorry, if I sound naive and anti-scientifical, I have no personal evidence for that and am not a neuroscientist. I recently was impressed by the stories in the book “The brain’s way of healing”.

mikekchar 7y ago
> It may be a good benefit It may. Or it may not. That's really the problem with acting on research that isn't commonly accepted. I still run into people who believe that cooking in aluminium pots causes Alzheimer's. Since the result appeared in a respected paper and was widely reported on, it lodged in the minds of the public. Later retractions had difficulty dislodging the idea. Especially if someone has a particular bias, it's easy to find an amount of research that confirms that bias (confirmation bias). When you present the material that you have found, it can be incredibly impressive. I have found that if someone has an incredibly impressive list of research that backs up a theory that isn't widely accepted, it is almost always a case of confirmation bias. Of course, sometimes the widely accepted notion has just not moved in that direction yet. The problem is that without being a true expert in the field it's essentially impossible to tell which is which. It is an unfortunate truth when studying very complex systems. Progress is made slowly with many arms reaching in different directions. People make promising leads, only to eventually find they don't lead anywhere. We often get stuck not knowing where to go. Sometimes when we find the answer, it turns out it was sitting under our noses all the time. It's just the way it goes.

kortex 7y ago

Add ADHD to that list. I and a few friends with similar meatware stacks have found it very effective. I don't have hard data, but after one 3 month period I found a significant correlation with micro days and hours worked, number of LOC committed, and quality of that code. I think anyone neurodivergent stands to benefit, and if they are not, well, sounds like they have a decent handle on life already. > Breaking this cycle lets you have some relief +1 Edit: That's not to say people living a content life would not benefit from doses, micro or otherwise. It's just probably much harder to detect in a clinical setting.

OGWhales 7y ago

I found microdosing greatly improved my productivity and ability to focus. I think it may be dose dependent and one would have to dial in to their appropriate dose. Also, the type of work one is doing may be an important factor.

anaisbetts 7y ago
In my experience, microdosing will do a great job at convincing you that you are extra productive and creative, but you don't end up actually getting anything done - you're just way more excited about it. Being excited is a Good Thing, but imho there are more effective ways to be productive