7 ms·

I found Crystal about a year ago and absolutely fell in love with it. It just “clicks” for me. My sense from reading most peanut-gallery commentary that the bi

by nlh 7y ago

I found Crystal about a year ago and absolutely fell in love with it. It just “clicks” for me. My sense from reading most peanut-gallery commentary that the biggest reasons it hasn’t taken off more (yet) are: 1. Real multi-threading (it’s now in alpha - but previously just had single-threaded concurrency - and sorry I might be getting that terminology wrong). 2. Windows support (I personally don’t care but I haven’t found a single thread talking about Crystal where someone doesn’t chime in and complain about this) I have a feeling once it reaches 1.0 and those issues are addressed it’ll get a bit more attention. It deserves it!

tomrod 7y ago
> Windows support WSL support maybe?
- Narishma 7y ago
  That's not good enough.
- dleslie 7y ago
  That's like recommending Office via Wine in 2001.
  - S-E-P 7y ago
    Not in the slightest. WSL is capable for most things. Wine in 2001 was not usable
    - Narishma 7y ago
      Can you use graphical applications with WSL?
      - iotku 7y ago
        If you install an X server for Windows, yes.
        ansible 7y ago
        I've purchased X410 for this. Since then I haven't looked to see if there are free implementations of an X server that work nicely with WSL.
        jgtrosh 7y ago
        X servers pays along with WSL as well as with anything else. I've used Xming and VcXsrv with WSL without any problem specific to WSL.
        pierreyoda 7y ago
        As said elsewhere, I've had excellent X11 experience with WSL2 at least thanks to the open-source VcXsrv.
      - Operyl 7y ago
        While I don’t recommend WSL for serious production workloads, yes you can X11 forward applications from WSL and there’s a few implementations that are really good, all things considered.
    - unixhero 7y ago
      At that time I used it to play StarCraft and burn CDs with Nero Burning ROM, on Slackware. It was indeed usable!
    - anthk 7y ago
      Bullshit, I played DeusEx a few months later just fine.
      - radmuzom 7y ago
        [Off Topic] Deus Ex had a profound effect on me growing up, and probably shaped my views which last to this day. Unfortunately, very few games like that are made nowadays.
      - coldtea 7y ago
        Playing a specific game or 100 on it != a translation layer from one OS to another is ready or generally usable. Games have minimal dependencies re OS APIs wise. Office apps and other programs make far more extensive use of OS facilities... So hardly "bullshit".
        yellowapple 7y ago
        > Games have minimal dependencies re OS APIs wise. Sure, if you exclude "let's use every little quirk and undocumented feature in the graphics and audio and input stacks we can find because gotta go fast sanic noises". Both games and office software (ab)use OS APIs; the difference is the specific subset of those APIs said programs (ab)use. So yeah, you're right that it ain't "bullshit", but don't write off games as somehow "easy" compared to office programs; a substantial amount of effort has been poured into reimplementing Windows' multimedia stack in Wine and continues to be poured even now.
        anthk 7y ago
        DirectX9 is not easy at all, it's almost Glide/Vulkan like low level-ish API. But hey. that's "bullshit". My balls. The above user should try running a pure DX9 game with Wine and GL 2.1 on a Intel Mobile 4 series with no noticeable frame drops. I tried. Hard. But also, having DX7/8 being almost 100% compatible back in the day was a huge step on stability vs Windows 98, even if the RAM and CPU usage were higher. DX run fast, so did Max Payne.
    - hordeallergy 7y ago
      The problem with wsl is that its a window like a small island extending 1000m into the air, and the moment you step off... Splat, you're back in Windows with the registry and such. I bought a surface a few weeks back - wsl is nothing but an improved cygwin, of no use to Linux/Mac users, and windows has become repulsively spammy. I've installed arch.
- PixyMisa 7y ago
  It works great under WSL, but as others note, it needs first-class Windows support to really take off.
- rishav_sharan 7y ago
  Wsl is good for webdev. Not something that you will use in production. And certainly not for other usecases like gamedev
BubRoss 7y ago
Lots of the crop of new languages with cleaner designs have huge problems with windows. V doesn't work on windows and zig's compiler fails if you use carriage return newlines. They even built in an error message for it instead of just making the parser work. It's kind of ridiculous how these languages shoot themselves in the foot.
- Reelin 7y ago
  I think Zig is probably just being opinionated there; many of the new languages seem to be overly so. Last I checked, both the Zig and Nim compilers refused (on principle, not for any technical reason) to compile code containing tabs (among other things). I don't (usually) want my compiler to do linting, and I certainly don't want language authors to dictate my code style from on high.
  - sullyj3 7y ago
    Presumably they're following python's example here.
    - Reelin 7y ago
      Python works just fine with tabs, but the language-endorsed style guide (PEP 8) recommends against them. (However, the usual plugin for Vim requires adding "let g:python_recommended_style = 0" to work correctly.)
      - sullyj3 7y ago
        I must've misremembered, possibly what's disallowed is mixing tabs and spaces.
  - kstenerud 7y ago
    Go is also annoying with its anal retentive source rules. I finally got so frustrated that I modified the compiler: https://github.com/kstenerud/go https://github.com/kstenerud/go
faissaloo 7y ago
Does anyone actually care about Windows support?
- rishav_sharan 7y ago
  A lot of us who actually use Crystal do. Its still the most asked for feature in the language
- cpach 7y ago
  Well, I guess devs on Windows do. Windows support means less friction for people who wants to try it out.
- Jenz 7y ago
  I never thought there would come a time when I would want windows-support. However, the case is, that Windows as it is today, is quite inevitable. Hence if you want Crystal, you probably want Windows support.
- olah_1 7y ago
  I have had a huge amount of issues trying to use both Ruby and Rust on Windows for server / client use cases. It's not just that it "works" on Windows, but that it works easily out of the box for common use cases. Meanwhile Python and Golang work great on Windows with no extra effort. It's like night and day.
  - steveklabnik 7y ago
    What issues did you have with Rust? I use Rust on Windows every day.
    - olah_1 7y ago
      It's been a while, but it was the common issue with certs that Ruby on Windows also has. I just couldn't get it sorted for whatever reason. Maybe it's not an issue anymore though? Rust http client works OOTB on Windows?

by nlh 7y ago

tomrod 7y ago

> Windows support WSL support maybe?

Narishma 7y ago
That's not good enough.
dleslie 7y ago
That's like recommending Office via Wine in 2001.
- S-E-P 7y ago
  Not in the slightest. WSL is capable for most things. Wine in 2001 was not usable
  - Narishma 7y ago
    Can you use graphical applications with WSL?
    - iotku 7y ago
      If you install an X server for Windows, yes.
      - ansible 7y ago
        I've purchased X410 for this. Since then I haven't looked to see if there are free implementations of an X server that work nicely with WSL.
        jgtrosh 7y ago
        X servers pays along with WSL as well as with anything else. I've used Xming and VcXsrv with WSL without any problem specific to WSL.
        pierreyoda 7y ago
        As said elsewhere, I've had excellent X11 experience with WSL2 at least thanks to the open-source VcXsrv.
    - Operyl 7y ago
      While I don’t recommend WSL for serious production workloads, yes you can X11 forward applications from WSL and there’s a few implementations that are really good, all things considered.
  - unixhero 7y ago
    At that time I used it to play StarCraft and burn CDs with Nero Burning ROM, on Slackware. It was indeed usable!
  - anthk 7y ago
    Bullshit, I played DeusEx a few months later just fine.
    - radmuzom 7y ago
      [Off Topic] Deus Ex had a profound effect on me growing up, and probably shaped my views which last to this day. Unfortunately, very few games like that are made nowadays.
    - coldtea 7y ago
      Playing a specific game or 100 on it != a translation layer from one OS to another is ready or generally usable. Games have minimal dependencies re OS APIs wise. Office apps and other programs make far more extensive use of OS facilities... So hardly "bullshit".
      - yellowapple 7y ago
        > Games have minimal dependencies re OS APIs wise. Sure, if you exclude "let's use every little quirk and undocumented feature in the graphics and audio and input stacks we can find because gotta go fast sanic noises". Both games and office software (ab)use OS APIs; the difference is the specific subset of those APIs said programs (ab)use. So yeah, you're right that it ain't "bullshit", but don't write off games as somehow "easy" compared to office programs; a substantial amount of effort has been poured into reimplementing Windows' multimedia stack in Wine and continues to be poured even now.
        anthk 7y ago
        DirectX9 is not easy at all, it's almost Glide/Vulkan like low level-ish API. But hey. that's "bullshit". My balls. The above user should try running a pure DX9 game with Wine and GL 2.1 on a Intel Mobile 4 series with no noticeable frame drops. I tried. Hard. But also, having DX7/8 being almost 100% compatible back in the day was a huge step on stability vs Windows 98, even if the RAM and CPU usage were higher. DX run fast, so did Max Payne.
  - hordeallergy 7y ago
    The problem with wsl is that its a window like a small island extending 1000m into the air, and the moment you step off... Splat, you're back in Windows with the registry and such. I bought a surface a few weeks back - wsl is nothing but an improved cygwin, of no use to Linux/Mac users, and windows has become repulsively spammy. I've installed arch.
PixyMisa 7y ago
It works great under WSL, but as others note, it needs first-class Windows support to really take off.
rishav_sharan 7y ago
Wsl is good for webdev. Not something that you will use in production. And certainly not for other usecases like gamedev

BubRoss 7y ago

Lots of the crop of new languages with cleaner designs have huge problems with windows. V doesn't work on windows and zig's compiler fails if you use carriage return newlines. They even built in an error message for it instead of just making the parser work. It's kind of ridiculous how these languages shoot themselves in the foot.

Reelin 7y ago
I think Zig is probably just being opinionated there; many of the new languages seem to be overly so. Last I checked, both the Zig and Nim compilers refused (on principle, not for any technical reason) to compile code containing tabs (among other things). I don't (usually) want my compiler to do linting, and I certainly don't want language authors to dictate my code style from on high.
- sullyj3 7y ago
  Presumably they're following python's example here.
  - Reelin 7y ago
    Python works just fine with tabs, but the language-endorsed style guide (PEP 8) recommends against them. (However, the usual plugin for Vim requires adding "let g:python_recommended_style = 0" to work correctly.)
    - sullyj3 7y ago
      I must've misremembered, possibly what's disallowed is mixing tabs and spaces.
- kstenerud 7y ago
  Go is also annoying with its anal retentive source rules. I finally got so frustrated that I modified the compiler: https://github.com/kstenerud/go https://github.com/kstenerud/go

faissaloo 7y ago

Does anyone actually care about Windows support?

rishav_sharan 7y ago
A lot of us who actually use Crystal do. Its still the most asked for feature in the language
cpach 7y ago
Well, I guess devs on Windows do. Windows support means less friction for people who wants to try it out.
Jenz 7y ago
I never thought there would come a time when I would want windows-support. However, the case is, that Windows as it is today, is quite inevitable. Hence if you want Crystal, you probably want Windows support.
olah_1 7y ago
I have had a huge amount of issues trying to use both Ruby and Rust on Windows for server / client use cases. It's not just that it "works" on Windows, but that it works easily out of the box for common use cases. Meanwhile Python and Golang work great on Windows with no extra effort. It's like night and day.
- steveklabnik 7y ago
  What issues did you have with Rust? I use Rust on Windows every day.
  - olah_1 7y ago
    It's been a while, but it was the common issue with certs that Ruby on Windows also has. I just couldn't get it sorted for whatever reason. Maybe it's not an issue anymore though? Rust http client works OOTB on Windows?