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Eh, my wife's mom abused my wife horribly and denies it today. She's now a lonely old (and still awful) woman, but that's not our problem.

by cm2012 7y ago

rglullis 7y ago
I believe that this whole Christmas thing is supposed to be a celebration of the Son of God that came to save us from our sins, right? The same One that taught us about forgiveness? I am sorry for sounding preachy. I just wish I could find a better way to see if you and your wife can make the best out of this amazing opportunity you have every year to heal and make amends with those that should be close to you.
- honkycat 7y ago
  This isn't just preachy. It is ignorant and condescending. I'm very glad you have never experienced enough abuse in your life to the point that you had to cut someone out of your life. Maybe you should be listening to victims instead of jabbering at them about your religion.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't respond to a bad comment with a worse one. That way we only get a downward spiral. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- cm2012 7y ago
  First: Forgiveness takes two people. One has to genuinely ask for forgiveness and admit they've done wrong. That's why Jesus wants you to ask him for forgiveness. Second: Yes, you're being preachy about something you know nothing about and making a lot of assumptions. If my wife's mom was in a bad mood, she would order her to close the windows. My wife (starting at age 5 or earlier) would start weeping as she closed the windows, knowing that if she didn't it would be worse. She'd then get a beating, for nothing. Her mom would call her worthless, ugly and fat constantly. The times of affection can be counted with the fingers on one hand. It was a lifetime of emotional and physical abuse that she only escaped by running away. And yet, partly because of guilting from people like you, my wife tried her damnedest to forgive her mom and get her mom to love her. Every time it would end with my mom trying to use her, and putting my wife down. It took years of therapy to get to the point now when she can admit to herself that she's not a bad girl, that she didn't deserve the abuse. And that it's best, to put it mildly, for them to not speak again.
  - rglullis 7y ago
    No assumptions were made, and I don't want to be trading horror stories here... So let me just say that while I have not personally experienced it, I also had people very close to me that suffered a lot on the hands of their parents. But one thing I can share is they have a common point that for them "forgiving" was about realizing that their parents failed them and not the reverse and that, yes, they probably will never be able to come around their wrongdoings - and yet they are still someone that deserves compassion. It has nothing to do with "guilt-tripping" or getting someone else that was abusive to "love you". I admit though that the medium is not the best to have this kind of conversations, so there is no way to talk about any of this without seeming confrontational. Sorry about that and all the best to you and your wife.
    - cm2012 7y ago
      You're also conflating "forgiveness" with "letting that person interact with you again". What does forgiveness even mean to you? My wife harbors no hate towards her mom, surprisingly. She wants her to find happiness. Just not with her. And certainly not at Christmas.
      - rglullis 7y ago
        Forgiveness for me would be a matter of being able to show love and compassion to someone even after they had done us wrong.
        tempestn 7y ago
        You can choose to forgive someone because you realize that who they are is simply a product of their genetics and upbringing, without choosing to spend time interacting with them. What good reason could there be for involving someone in your life if all they have given or are likely to give you is abuse?
        wyqydsyq 7y ago
        Just because you've forgiven someone for being a shit human doesn't mean you need to welcome them back into your life with open arms. Forgiveness just means to let go of any resentment, it doesn't mean you can't learn from your lessons and change who you choose to interact with
- dkersten 7y ago
  We owe nothing to those who drain us or make our lives worse. Sometimes you just have to cut people out so you can move on with life.
  - cameronbrown 7y ago
    (trying not to sound preachy) Sometimes cutting somebody out needs an element of forgiveness, otherwise you can't _really_ move on. These types of things always depend on context, though.
    - dkersten 7y ago
      > These types of things always depend on context Of course. I’d never do it lightly and would try to work it out first. But at the end of the day, if the other person isn’t willing to work with you or they otherwise sap your energy then maybe it’s best to move on. Life’s too short for that.
- Ma8ee 7y ago
  Aren't you supposed to repent before being forgiven? Or can I continue being an asshole and you'd still forgive me for being one?
- taneq 7y ago
  > make the best out of this amazing opportunity you have every year to heal and make amends with those that should be close to you If you'd ever had to deal with a truly toxic person you'd know that this is terrible advice. Some people cannot be saved and the only way to save yourself is to strictly control (or even entirely sever) your contact with them. This goes double for family members, and quadruple for parents.
- dang 7y ago
  An internet comment is never going to establish the deep level of connection necessary for a message like that, so it's better not to go there here. It will only come across as an attack.
  - cm2012 7y ago
    It would very likely come off as an attack in person as well.
    - dang 7y ago
      Yes. I said it requires a deep connection, but if you have the conditions for that—such as non-judgment and presence and a willingness to relate to the person exactly as they are—then you are going to have a different kind of conversation anyhow.

Eh, my wife's mom abused my wife horribly and denies it today. She's now a lonely old (and still awful) woman, but that's not our problem.

by cm2012 7y ago

Eh, my wife's mom abused my wife horribly and denies it today. She's now a lonely old (and still awful) woman, but that's not our problem.

rglullis 7y ago

I believe that this whole Christmas thing is supposed to be a celebration of the Son of God that came to save us from our sins, right? The same One that taught us about forgiveness? I am sorry for sounding preachy. I just wish I could find a better way to see if you and your wife can make the best out of this amazing opportunity you have every year to heal and make amends with those that should be close to you.

honkycat 7y ago
This isn't just preachy. It is ignorant and condescending. I'm very glad you have never experienced enough abuse in your life to the point that you had to cut someone out of your life. Maybe you should be listening to victims instead of jabbering at them about your religion.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't respond to a bad comment with a worse one. That way we only get a downward spiral. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
cm2012 7y ago
First: Forgiveness takes two people. One has to genuinely ask for forgiveness and admit they've done wrong. That's why Jesus wants you to ask him for forgiveness. Second: Yes, you're being preachy about something you know nothing about and making a lot of assumptions. If my wife's mom was in a bad mood, she would order her to close the windows. My wife (starting at age 5 or earlier) would start weeping as she closed the windows, knowing that if she didn't it would be worse. She'd then get a beating, for nothing. Her mom would call her worthless, ugly and fat constantly. The times of affection can be counted with the fingers on one hand. It was a lifetime of emotional and physical abuse that she only escaped by running away. And yet, partly because of guilting from people like you, my wife tried her damnedest to forgive her mom and get her mom to love her. Every time it would end with my mom trying to use her, and putting my wife down. It took years of therapy to get to the point now when she can admit to herself that she's not a bad girl, that she didn't deserve the abuse. And that it's best, to put it mildly, for them to not speak again.
- rglullis 7y ago
  No assumptions were made, and I don't want to be trading horror stories here... So let me just say that while I have not personally experienced it, I also had people very close to me that suffered a lot on the hands of their parents. But one thing I can share is they have a common point that for them "forgiving" was about realizing that their parents failed them and not the reverse and that, yes, they probably will never be able to come around their wrongdoings - and yet they are still someone that deserves compassion. It has nothing to do with "guilt-tripping" or getting someone else that was abusive to "love you". I admit though that the medium is not the best to have this kind of conversations, so there is no way to talk about any of this without seeming confrontational. Sorry about that and all the best to you and your wife.
  - cm2012 7y ago
    You're also conflating "forgiveness" with "letting that person interact with you again". What does forgiveness even mean to you? My wife harbors no hate towards her mom, surprisingly. She wants her to find happiness. Just not with her. And certainly not at Christmas.
    - rglullis 7y ago
      Forgiveness for me would be a matter of being able to show love and compassion to someone even after they had done us wrong.
      - tempestn 7y ago
        You can choose to forgive someone because you realize that who they are is simply a product of their genetics and upbringing, without choosing to spend time interacting with them. What good reason could there be for involving someone in your life if all they have given or are likely to give you is abuse?
      - wyqydsyq 7y ago
        Just because you've forgiven someone for being a shit human doesn't mean you need to welcome them back into your life with open arms. Forgiveness just means to let go of any resentment, it doesn't mean you can't learn from your lessons and change who you choose to interact with
dkersten 7y ago
We owe nothing to those who drain us or make our lives worse. Sometimes you just have to cut people out so you can move on with life.
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  (trying not to sound preachy) Sometimes cutting somebody out needs an element of forgiveness, otherwise you can't _really_ move on. These types of things always depend on context, though.
  - dkersten 7y ago
    > These types of things always depend on context Of course. I’d never do it lightly and would try to work it out first. But at the end of the day, if the other person isn’t willing to work with you or they otherwise sap your energy then maybe it’s best to move on. Life’s too short for that.
Ma8ee 7y ago
Aren't you supposed to repent before being forgiven? Or can I continue being an asshole and you'd still forgive me for being one?
taneq 7y ago
> make the best out of this amazing opportunity you have every year to heal and make amends with those that should be close to you If you'd ever had to deal with a truly toxic person you'd know that this is terrible advice. Some people cannot be saved and the only way to save yourself is to strictly control (or even entirely sever) your contact with them. This goes double for family members, and quadruple for parents.
dang 7y ago
An internet comment is never going to establish the deep level of connection necessary for a message like that, so it's better not to go there here. It will only come across as an attack.
- cm2012 7y ago
  It would very likely come off as an attack in person as well.
  - dang 7y ago
    Yes. I said it requires a deep connection, but if you have the conditions for that—such as non-judgment and presence and a willingness to relate to the person exactly as they are—then you are going to have a different kind of conversation anyhow.