4 ms·

In a real historical piece, if they tried to make everything slavishly right any show would be unwatchable, because there would be too much that the audience co

In a real historical piece, if they tried to make everything slavishly right any show would be unwatchable, because there would be too much that the audience couldn’t understand. The audience would be constantly distracted by details like un-filmably dark building interiors, ugly missing teeth, infants being given broken-winged songbirds as disposable toys to play with, crush, and throw away, and Marie Antoinette relieving herself on the floor at Versailles. Despite its hundreds of bathrooms, one of Versailles’ marks of luxury was that the staff removed human feces from the hallways regularly, sometimes as often as twice a day, and always more than once a week. We cannot make an accurate movie of this – it will please no one. The makers of the TV series Mad Men recognized how much an accurate depiction of the past freaks viewers out – the sexual politics, the lack of seat belts and eco-consciousness, the way grown-ups treat kids. They focused just enough on this discomfort to make it the heart of a powerful and successful show, but there even an accurate depiction of attitudes from a few decades ago makes all the characters feel like scary aliens. Go back further and you will have complete incomprehensibility. This perfectly explains why I like reading historical and anthropological writing alongside historical fiction and science fiction. People have already in other times and places been aliens more remote from 20th century middle class Americans than any rubber-forehead creature Star Trek ever showed. It also explains why rubber forehead aliens are a lot more popular than really weird (in belief or biology) aliens [1]. Most people prefer palette-swapped adventure stories over the dauntingly weird aliens that I love. And that's fine! People enjoy seeing those adventures and the writers and actors enjoy having an audience and pay checks. (I generally prefer familiar-sounding music of certain types over anything labeled avant-garde or experimental. My appetite for novelty is not unlimited either.) [1] Apart from the ease and affordability of costuming a human actor vs. depicting, say, a feathered amphibious octopus creature.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Are they? That's far more for production stereotypes than viewer convenience or expectations, or at least seems so. Down to current fashion, and the expectations of the kids in the production team -- or the execs signing off. The most popular aliens in Doctor Who are dustbins with a sink plunger (Daleks). One of Star Trek's most popular the tribble. I get really tired of rubber enhanced blue aliens, with a few forehead bumps, and utterly perfect English. I'd rather have a few of the sillier ones from the 50's B movies or B&W Dr Who make a come back than yet another tedious perfect humanoid with augmentation... Though I also like to intersperse the fiction with history and anthropological. I can picture the fiction better, and find I enjoy it more with a clearer idea of how people actually lived, struggled, died etc. I also end up judging some of the historical fiction against the actuality too -- some authors are far more accurate than others. I am sure most productions could go vastly further than they try to, as 95% of all historical and fantasy (e.g. GoT) drama are 21st century views, mores and habits in cute -- and in the case of armies perfectly matched and colour matched -- costume. I think this article does a disservice to what we could show. We could show a much closer representation of actuality without triggering revulsion, or making racism or sexism acceptable again, spoiling the show, or losing viewers. Heck, even half the supposed documentaries get fundamentals wrong! Some accuracy we would indeed struggle with, but I suspect most could handle and enjoy far more than we're ever given! Being unfilmably dark didn't stop GoT filming the series climax in the dead of night, outside. It was unwatchably dark for pretty much a whole episode, without a poorly lit castle or smoke filled long house in sight. Overall I think it's more a lack of imagination, or laziness. Adaptation so it becomes the usual formula with new overlay. I appreciate the rare ones that are faithful, or do depart from the usual tedium that much more as a result, and often forgive other glitches or ropy moments. I'm usually much more damning of poor adaptation than costuming or habit. :)
- jhbadger 7y ago
  I think the trope "rubber forehead aliens" is broader than just that literally, but is referring to aliens who might as well just be humans. Daleks are still "rubber forehead aliens" in that they aren't really that alien psychologically -- they are basically just metaphorical Space Nazis who think they are superior to everyone else and who want to rule the universe. And Tribbles don't really count at all because they are just props and not characters. A true non rubber forehead alien would be the squid-like things from Arrival -- not only alien in shape but alien in mind.
- philipkglass 7y ago
  I agree with both you and jhbadger that the argument about recording dark scenes is one of the weakest he makes. I just didn't want to truncate any of the sentences I was quoting. What are some examples of successful historical fiction or fantasy on the screen that aren't just contemporary views, mores, and habits dressed up in costumes? According to the original article, "Borgia: Faith and Fear" should count. I watched it because I read this very Ex Urbe article back in 2013. But nobody else I know watched it except at my recommendation. I knew a number of people who watched Showtime's The Borgias. I think that The Borgias reached more viewers. I don't know which one was a better investment, financially. Maybe the smaller audiences and budgets of Faith and Fear delivered a ROI equal or better to that of The Borgias. Audience might tolerate significantly more historicity than they typically get now. But there doesn't seem to be an audience-driven clamor for more history in historical drama (at least on the screen; it's easier to find and cater to niche preferences among readers). It also takes more effort to understand a period and write for it than to just drape costumes over contemporary conflicts and ideals. That's one of the reasons that I read more drama than I watch. Productions for the screen tend to be more small-c conservative about imitating what succeeded recently, probably because failed experiments are more costly for movies and TV series than for books. My favorite short take on ahistorical historical fiction: https://pbfcomics.com/comics/now-showing/ https://pbfcomics.com/comics/now-showing/
watwut 7y ago
I don't think that is honest argument. For one, any giving epoch contains only some of those and not all of them. For the other, accuracy does not mean "show everything". Accurate contemporary movie typically does not show pissing or toilets - there is no reason to. It does not show accurate vacuum cleaning and its frequency. Moreover, when I was taking ideas about past societies from entertainment, they looked very much alien not-real-people. When I started to read actual history, they became much more human and relatable to me.
jhbadger 7y ago
Some of this is true, but Kubrick's underrated "Barry Lyndon" (1975) shows you that you can film in realistically dark candle-lit rooms.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Are they? That's far more for production stereotypes than viewer convenience or expectations, or at least seems so. Down to current fashion, and the expectations of the kids in the production team -- or the execs signing off. The most popular aliens in Doctor Who are dustbins with a sink plunger (Daleks). One of Star Trek's most popular the tribble. I get really tired of rubber enhanced blue aliens, with a few forehead bumps, and utterly perfect English. I'd rather have a few of the sillier ones from the 50's B movies or B&W Dr Who make a come back than yet another tedious perfect humanoid with augmentation... Though I also like to intersperse the fiction with history and anthropological. I can picture the fiction better, and find I enjoy it more with a clearer idea of how people actually lived, struggled, died etc. I also end up judging some of the historical fiction against the actuality too -- some authors are far more accurate than others. I am sure most productions could go vastly further than they try to, as 95% of all historical and fantasy (e.g. GoT) drama are 21st century views, mores and habits in cute -- and in the case of armies perfectly matched and colour matched -- costume. I think this article does a disservice to what we could show. We could show a much closer representation of actuality without triggering revulsion, or making racism or sexism acceptable again, spoiling the show, or losing viewers. Heck, even half the supposed documentaries get fundamentals wrong! Some accuracy we would indeed struggle with, but I suspect most could handle and enjoy far more than we're ever given! Being unfilmably dark didn't stop GoT filming the series climax in the dead of night, outside. It was unwatchably dark for pretty much a whole episode, without a poorly lit castle or smoke filled long house in sight. Overall I think it's more a lack of imagination, or laziness. Adaptation so it becomes the usual formula with new overlay. I appreciate the rare ones that are faithful, or do depart from the usual tedium that much more as a result, and often forgive other glitches or ropy moments. I'm usually much more damning of poor adaptation than costuming or habit. :)

jhbadger 7y ago
I think the trope "rubber forehead aliens" is broader than just that literally, but is referring to aliens who might as well just be humans. Daleks are still "rubber forehead aliens" in that they aren't really that alien psychologically -- they are basically just metaphorical Space Nazis who think they are superior to everyone else and who want to rule the universe. And Tribbles don't really count at all because they are just props and not characters. A true non rubber forehead alien would be the squid-like things from Arrival -- not only alien in shape but alien in mind.
philipkglass 7y ago
I agree with both you and jhbadger that the argument about recording dark scenes is one of the weakest he makes. I just didn't want to truncate any of the sentences I was quoting. What are some examples of successful historical fiction or fantasy on the screen that aren't just contemporary views, mores, and habits dressed up in costumes? According to the original article, "Borgia: Faith and Fear" should count. I watched it because I read this very Ex Urbe article back in 2013. But nobody else I know watched it except at my recommendation. I knew a number of people who watched Showtime's The Borgias. I think that The Borgias reached more viewers. I don't know which one was a better investment, financially. Maybe the smaller audiences and budgets of Faith and Fear delivered a ROI equal or better to that of The Borgias. Audience might tolerate significantly more historicity than they typically get now. But there doesn't seem to be an audience-driven clamor for more history in historical drama (at least on the screen; it's easier to find and cater to niche preferences among readers). It also takes more effort to understand a period and write for it than to just drape costumes over contemporary conflicts and ideals. That's one of the reasons that I read more drama than I watch. Productions for the screen tend to be more small-c conservative about imitating what succeeded recently, probably because failed experiments are more costly for movies and TV series than for books. My favorite short take on ahistorical historical fiction: https://pbfcomics.com/comics/now-showing/ https://pbfcomics.com/comics/now-showing/

watwut 7y ago

I don't think that is honest argument. For one, any giving epoch contains only some of those and not all of them. For the other, accuracy does not mean "show everything". Accurate contemporary movie typically does not show pissing or toilets - there is no reason to. It does not show accurate vacuum cleaning and its frequency. Moreover, when I was taking ideas about past societies from entertainment, they looked very much alien not-real-people. When I started to read actual history, they became much more human and relatable to me.

jhbadger 7y ago

Some of this is true, but Kubrick's underrated "Barry Lyndon" (1975) shows you that you can film in realistically dark candle-lit rooms.