4 ms·

This kind of stuff always blows my mind away. How insignificant we all are, in the grand scheme of things. (Then my mind overflows when I ask myself the quest

by yuvadam 16y ago

This kind of stuff always blows my mind away. How insignificant we all are, in the grand scheme of things. (Then my mind overflows when I ask myself the question of "what the hell is the universe?")

jamesbressi 16y ago
I can practically give myself an aneurism thinking the following when contemplating how it all began: Try and put religious arguments aside (while this will have some overtones) for a moment and work with me here and not throw the notion of time having no beginning or end which is equally frustrating to comprehend. Reverse the creation story and you wind up at the beginning with light and darkness. Before light there was darkness or nothing. But what was before the "darkness" or nothingness? The religious will say God whom has no beginning or no end, but how did God or energy pop into to existence if there was nothing? Then, put yourself in God or energy's place... You are in a "space" with nothing around you... everything is void... Then where did "you" come from? I know this is linear thought and time and the universe should not be considered in this way many in the field of science and mathematics explain... I understand the many dimensions that are possible and how time should be viewed, but it still doesn't answer the question of how something, anything came of nothing...
- markkat 16y ago
  A few years ago, I wrote a blog post about my thoughts on this, -two posts actually: http://corpusdord.blogspot.com/2006/02/existence-and-non-existence.html http://corpusdord.blogspot.com/2006/02/existence-and-non-exi... Basically, I was waxing on the idea of existence, and what it meant. Might be another angle for you to consider.
  - jamesbressi 16y ago
    Impressive and I have contemplated such along similar lines before. Well done. Of course it doesn't bring an answer closer, but it is a very rational ideal based on everything we know to be true already. We'll have to have coffee and talk about this sometime if I'm ever in MI.
    - markkat 16y ago
      >We'll have to have coffee and talk about this sometime if I'm ever in MI. Sure thing. Thanks. :)
- Retric 16y ago
  That's a limited viewpoint. One idea is that time and space started with the big bang. So asking what happened before the big bang is somewhat pointless because causality did not exist. Things could happen without cause or consequence. PS: Our preconception of how reality operates break down on the vary large, the vary fast, and the vary small. Trying think how things operate without matter, energy, space, or time is something of a fool's errand IMO.
  - makmanalp 16y ago
    Could you expand upon how causality can cease to exist or what would cause (heh heh) such a thing?
    - mey 16y ago
      There is the concept of the heat death of the universe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe Essentially, as particles expand and spread out, the universe will reach a point where there is not enough energy localized in one area to support anything. Of course this is just one theory. etc etc
  - angstrom 16y ago
    The odd thing, the hardest thing to comprehend, is how our reality continues to exist. The ground state of the universe is a vacuum. Void of matter and shielded from radiation is the quantum foam of field fluctuations and virtual particles that exist on the scale of Planck lengths. The probable reality is not that the universe came from nothing, but that the universe is nothing. In a flat universe (which is what we believe we are) the symmetries of the universe cancel each other out such that, accounting for the mass and energy, the universe is a state where 0 = 0.
- panacea 16y ago
  "Then, put yourself in God or energy's place... You are in a "space" with nothing around you... everything is void... Then where did "you" come from?" There was no "space" with 'nothing around you'. Space is relative. Without time it isn't just a void... it doesn't exist.
mortenjorck 16y ago
Earth is a big fish in a small interstellar pond. But what a big fish it is! The sheer magnitude of order on our planet since the dawn of life - uncanny biodiversity, the rapturous elegance of cellular systems and organisms - and more recently, of our species - the culture, the technology, the spectacularity of both our achievements and failures - is anything but insignificant. Maybe this happens all the time elsewhere outside our 200-light-year dot. But even if it's common, I propose that it is significant wherever it happens. The universe is significant. And we're a part of it.
panacea 16y ago
"what the hell is the universe?" A mathematical structure? Perhaps a perspective/viewport/subset of the entirety of mathematical possibility? What's between nothing and 'something' (0 and 1)? Seems to me that's only a valid question if asked by a consciousness experiencing it (tree/woods/sound yada yada).

by yuvadam 16y ago

This kind of stuff always blows my mind away. How insignificant we all are, in the grand scheme of things. (Then my mind overflows when I ask myself the question of "what the hell is the universe?")

jamesbressi 16y ago

I can practically give myself an aneurism thinking the following when contemplating how it all began: Try and put religious arguments aside (while this will have some overtones) for a moment and work with me here and not throw the notion of time having no beginning or end which is equally frustrating to comprehend. Reverse the creation story and you wind up at the beginning with light and darkness. Before light there was darkness or nothing. But what was before the "darkness" or nothingness? The religious will say God whom has no beginning or no end, but how did God or energy pop into to existence if there was nothing? Then, put yourself in God or energy's place... You are in a "space" with nothing around you... everything is void... Then where did "you" come from? I know this is linear thought and time and the universe should not be considered in this way many in the field of science and mathematics explain... I understand the many dimensions that are possible and how time should be viewed, but it still doesn't answer the question of how something, anything came of nothing...

markkat 16y ago
A few years ago, I wrote a blog post about my thoughts on this, -two posts actually: http://corpusdord.blogspot.com/2006/02/existence-and-non-existence.html http://corpusdord.blogspot.com/2006/02/existence-and-non-exi... Basically, I was waxing on the idea of existence, and what it meant. Might be another angle for you to consider.
- jamesbressi 16y ago
  Impressive and I have contemplated such along similar lines before. Well done. Of course it doesn't bring an answer closer, but it is a very rational ideal based on everything we know to be true already. We'll have to have coffee and talk about this sometime if I'm ever in MI.
  - markkat 16y ago
    >We'll have to have coffee and talk about this sometime if I'm ever in MI. Sure thing. Thanks. :)
Retric 16y ago
That's a limited viewpoint. One idea is that time and space started with the big bang. So asking what happened before the big bang is somewhat pointless because causality did not exist. Things could happen without cause or consequence. PS: Our preconception of how reality operates break down on the vary large, the vary fast, and the vary small. Trying think how things operate without matter, energy, space, or time is something of a fool's errand IMO.
- makmanalp 16y ago
  Could you expand upon how causality can cease to exist or what would cause (heh heh) such a thing?
  - mey 16y ago
    There is the concept of the heat death of the universe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe Essentially, as particles expand and spread out, the universe will reach a point where there is not enough energy localized in one area to support anything. Of course this is just one theory. etc etc
- angstrom 16y ago
  The odd thing, the hardest thing to comprehend, is how our reality continues to exist. The ground state of the universe is a vacuum. Void of matter and shielded from radiation is the quantum foam of field fluctuations and virtual particles that exist on the scale of Planck lengths. The probable reality is not that the universe came from nothing, but that the universe is nothing. In a flat universe (which is what we believe we are) the symmetries of the universe cancel each other out such that, accounting for the mass and energy, the universe is a state where 0 = 0.
panacea 16y ago
"Then, put yourself in God or energy's place... You are in a "space" with nothing around you... everything is void... Then where did "you" come from?" There was no "space" with 'nothing around you'. Space is relative. Without time it isn't just a void... it doesn't exist.

mortenjorck 16y ago

Earth is a big fish in a small interstellar pond. But what a big fish it is! The sheer magnitude of order on our planet since the dawn of life - uncanny biodiversity, the rapturous elegance of cellular systems and organisms - and more recently, of our species - the culture, the technology, the spectacularity of both our achievements and failures - is anything but insignificant. Maybe this happens all the time elsewhere outside our 200-light-year dot. But even if it's common, I propose that it is significant wherever it happens. The universe is significant. And we're a part of it.

panacea 16y ago

"what the hell is the universe?" A mathematical structure? Perhaps a perspective/viewport/subset of the entirety of mathematical possibility? What's between nothing and 'something' (0 and 1)? Seems to me that's only a valid question if asked by a consciousness experiencing it (tree/woods/sound yada yada).