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> Third - is the degree to which negative work conditions actually affect life outcomes. So it's clear there were several policies in place that were not very n
by Yoric 7y ago
> Third - is the degree to which negative work conditions actually affect life outcomes. So it's clear there were several policies in place that were not very nice - but this happens all the time in the world. An 'easier' route would have been for Orange to simply have done a big layoff.
> If a factory closes and employees are laid off, does the business then become responsible if people kill themselves over it? No.
A common (mis)management technique used in France is called "placardisation" (literally "put someone in the closet"). Rather than laying off people, drive them to nervous breakdown and ensure that they quit. I've survived this once and I can tell you that it's not pretty. That's the kind of practice that was being tried.
(I've written something a bit more detailed in another comment on this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21856307 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21856307 )
> Instead - we got a kangaroo court.
The investigation lasted years. What makes you claim that it's a kangaroo court?
- ldng 7y ago"Placardisation" is totally a thing. Contrary to anglo-saxon culture, to this day, failure is not an option for French management. And having to fire someone is failure. So the alternative is often harrasment.
- dnpp123 7y agoNote that `placardisation` (lmao) is not only a French thing, but is a Northeast Asia thing as well.
- Yoric 7y agoInteresting, I didn't know that. Does this reach the point where the practice has a "cute" name over there, too?
- scrollaway 7y agoIt's also an American thing even though they don't have a word for it. It was even referenced in the Silicon Valley Season 1, where Bighetti is "sent to the roof" to do nothing, because the CEO does not believe in firing people.
- cnasc 7y agoI’ve heard it referred to as “getting managed out.”
- bobsil1 7y agoInvoluntary resting and vesting
- nieve 7y agoVery much an American thing. During the first dotcom bubble the company who bought mine turned out to have a habit of getting rid of CTOs who had golden parachutes by ordering other employees to not talk to them and giving them a supposedly nice office on an unfinished, empty floor of a skyscraper where all the lights outside their office were disconnected. One held out long enough to launch his new startup and I was pretty impressed that he put it together in semi-squat conditions while being shunned. When it comes to cheating people on contracts there are a lot of determined, creative people in management and on boards.
- wh1t3n01s3 7y agoIsn’t it the same thing as mobbing? Extreme mobbing
- thrower123 7y agoYou have this problem of exiling people in-place because the labor regulations make it absurdly difficult to fire people. You see the same thing in school department "rubber rooms" or union shops that tell the useless guys to go count bolts and stay out of the way. It's better for everyone if you can just shitcan people when things aren't working out.
- Yoric 7y agoWell, this would make (some) sense if actually firing someone was nigh-impossible. But in France, it's actually not that hard. You just have to explicitly tell them why, fill a few forms and pay the severance package.