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China is the biggest pollutant by far: over twice as much CO2 as the USA, and of course they've been poisoning everything with toxic waste for decades. Why can

China is the biggest pollutant by far: over twice as much CO2 as the USA, and of course they've been poisoning everything with toxic waste for decades. Why can't governments stop all Chinese imports until the get in line, instead of banning plastic straws? That's the real question no one asks.

ben_w 7y ago
I’ve witnessed people asking that question even when the opening statement was in the form “in ten years China will be a bigger polluter than the USA.”
bloak 7y ago
China emits less than half as much CO2 as the USA per capita, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... It's interesting to see that there are several countries that emit more per capita than the USA, including Canada and Australia. Maybe the USA should stop trading with those countries?
- papermachete 7y ago
  'per capita' is a manipulative and unproductive metric.
  - redavni 7y ago
    Chinese people exhale less CO2. Free speech causes global warming.
  - ben_w 7y ago
    Is it worse than ‘per country’? The problem isn’t going to be changed one way or the other by, e.g., China breaking apart into 34 provinces, nor by the union of literally every nation into a world government. (Well, except for the economic impact of those scenarios). The optimal place to focus effort is wherever a marginal unit of effort has the most impact. I’m not aware of any research that estimates that, and while I won’t be surprised if some cities in China are more important targets of effort than some cities in the USA, I’d also expect a unit of intervention in a randomly selected city in the USA to be more effective than “the same”[0] intervention in a randomly selected city in China. [0] adjusted for exchange rates, etc.
- catalogia 7y ago
  If only temperature per capita had meaning, CO2 per capita might matter.
- nkkollaw 7y ago
  LOL, per capita. How is that metric useful in any way, besides deceiving people and accuse other countries of being the bad guys? It's industry which pollutes, not people. That's why it's so pointless to blame plastic straws and other silly things like that. Maybe if we stopped buying things from communist China things would go better.
mokkol 7y ago
This is unfair in my opinion. China produces more or less the whole world. Look what you have in your home and check where it is made. My guess is that 75% is made in China. So stop buying stuff from China and you do the world a favor. It should be calculated by indirect impact per human, per country, instead of where it is made.
- nkkollaw 7y ago
  Yes, that's why I don't buy anything made in China (unless I have to).
elfexec 7y ago
> China is the biggest pollutant by far: over twice as much CO2 as the USA, and of course they've been poisoning everything with toxic waste for decades. That's because the US, Europe, Japan, etc sent their polluting manufacturing to china for decades. Go read about the US-China detente in the 60s/70s. > Why can't governments stop all Chinese imports until the get in line, instead of banning plastic straws? Because "governments" sent manufacturing/pollution to china decades ago so that the pollution is in china and not in the US, Europe, Japan, etc and they get cheap imports. > That's the real question no one asks. No. That is the anti-china talking point peddled all over social media by dedicated group of "people/bots/etc". Sure, I guess china could stop polluting. But then it would mean that the pollution would be in the US, Europe, Japan, etc like in the 1900s. Did you know that China has been one of the biggest sources of plastics in the ocean? Do you know why? Because most of the world sends/sent their garbage to china to "recycle". We can blame "china", but it is we who are producing the garbage and it is we who are consuming so much and creating so much pollution in china. Pollution in china is why london, paris, ny, pittsburgh, LA, etc aren't covered in smog and the rivers aren't filled with toxic slime.
- nkkollaw 7y ago
  I think part of the reason why China pollutes and in general has awful business practices is because their regulation are not in line with ours. If they were—and if they didn't steal IP from Western companies—their products would be as expensive as ours. Lastly, you could very well be one of those "dedicated group of "people/bots/etc"." that you're talking about. I see plenty of weird comments defending China here on HN whenever it's mentioned.

ben_w 7y ago

I’ve witnessed people asking that question even when the opening statement was in the form “in ten years China will be a bigger polluter than the USA.”

bloak 7y ago

China emits less than half as much CO2 as the USA per capita, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_di... It's interesting to see that there are several countries that emit more per capita than the USA, including Canada and Australia. Maybe the USA should stop trading with those countries?

papermachete 7y ago
'per capita' is a manipulative and unproductive metric.
- redavni 7y ago
  Chinese people exhale less CO2. Free speech causes global warming.
- ben_w 7y ago
  Is it worse than ‘per country’? The problem isn’t going to be changed one way or the other by, e.g., China breaking apart into 34 provinces, nor by the union of literally every nation into a world government. (Well, except for the economic impact of those scenarios). The optimal place to focus effort is wherever a marginal unit of effort has the most impact. I’m not aware of any research that estimates that, and while I won’t be surprised if some cities in China are more important targets of effort than some cities in the USA, I’d also expect a unit of intervention in a randomly selected city in the USA to be more effective than “the same”[0] intervention in a randomly selected city in China. [0] adjusted for exchange rates, etc.
catalogia 7y ago
If only temperature per capita had meaning, CO2 per capita might matter.
nkkollaw 7y ago
LOL, per capita. How is that metric useful in any way, besides deceiving people and accuse other countries of being the bad guys? It's industry which pollutes, not people. That's why it's so pointless to blame plastic straws and other silly things like that. Maybe if we stopped buying things from communist China things would go better.

mokkol 7y ago

This is unfair in my opinion. China produces more or less the whole world. Look what you have in your home and check where it is made. My guess is that 75% is made in China. So stop buying stuff from China and you do the world a favor. It should be calculated by indirect impact per human, per country, instead of where it is made.

nkkollaw 7y ago
Yes, that's why I don't buy anything made in China (unless I have to).

elfexec 7y ago

> China is the biggest pollutant by far: over twice as much CO2 as the USA, and of course they've been poisoning everything with toxic waste for decades. That's because the US, Europe, Japan, etc sent their polluting manufacturing to china for decades. Go read about the US-China detente in the 60s/70s. > Why can't governments stop all Chinese imports until the get in line, instead of banning plastic straws? Because "governments" sent manufacturing/pollution to china decades ago so that the pollution is in china and not in the US, Europe, Japan, etc and they get cheap imports. > That's the real question no one asks. No. That is the anti-china talking point peddled all over social media by dedicated group of "people/bots/etc". Sure, I guess china could stop polluting. But then it would mean that the pollution would be in the US, Europe, Japan, etc like in the 1900s. Did you know that China has been one of the biggest sources of plastics in the ocean? Do you know why? Because most of the world sends/sent their garbage to china to "recycle". We can blame "china", but it is we who are producing the garbage and it is we who are consuming so much and creating so much pollution in china. Pollution in china is why london, paris, ny, pittsburgh, LA, etc aren't covered in smog and the rivers aren't filled with toxic slime.

nkkollaw 7y ago
I think part of the reason why China pollutes and in general has awful business practices is because their regulation are not in line with ours. If they were—and if they didn't steal IP from Western companies—their products would be as expensive as ours. Lastly, you could very well be one of those "dedicated group of "people/bots/etc"." that you're talking about. I see plenty of weird comments defending China here on HN whenever it's mentioned.