6 ms·

This article is a significantly less bad than most, but still suffers from the ol' "depressed people should simply try to be happy, then the whole depression-th

by apl 16y ago

This article is a significantly less bad than most, but still suffers from the ol' "depressed people should simply try to be happy, then the whole depression-thing isn't actually that bad" fallacy of mental illness. If you're hard-wired to be impulsive and have a knack for viewing things in a negative light, it is in fact incredibly hard to get rid of such behavioral tendencies simply by "getting off your butt, man." Similarly, all these hints and tips implicitly require the very quality they try to instill. Works for mild cases, but has little bearing on genuine pathological procrastination. (See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_M%C3%BCnchhausen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_M%C3%BCnchhausen)

Qz 16y ago
I mostly agree with you, but I'm wondering what precisely you mean by 'hard-wired to be impulsive'.
- ippisl 16y ago
  Hyperactivity and impulsivity are two of the primary characteristics of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). So Adhd is one example of hard-wiring that affects impulsivity.
  - Qz 16y ago
    I guess what I take issue with is the use of the term 'hard-wired' as the exact causes of ADHD are not known, nor is it necessarily permanent.
    - Avshalom 16y ago
      Human beings are giant incestuous continuum of software firmware and hardware. "Hard-wired" in casual conversation, i.e. this forum, is a very common catch-all for "condition we can't (or think we can't) think ourselves out of." connotations, they exist.
      - Qz 16y ago
        I know what the term means, but that doesn't make it true. The parenthetical in your statement is my point precisely; hardly 'hard-wired' if it's potentially a product of misguided thinking.
Alex3917 16y ago
"Works for mild cases, but has little bearing on genuine pathological procrastination." My guess is that 'clinical' procrastination, like drug addiction, largely stems from Adverse Childhood Experiences and should be treated the same way. Although I haven't actually looked through the research yet. As for any attention deficit tendencies, these can be trained via meditation.
- Alex3917 16y ago
  Not sure why I'm being downmodded, as the same negative life outcomes (e.g. alcoholism or depression) predicted by adverse childhood experiences correlate very strongly with procrastination: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=Lu4r0H_wcVcC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=procrastination+adverse+childhood+experiences&ots=-e3gobFthQ&sig=8sDMNK55Tpu5wzfmxgnOgFgAk-A#v=onepage&q&f=false http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=Lu4r0H_wc...
- gcheong 16y ago
  I would be interested in the research you are referring to showing that drug addiction largely stems from adverse childhood experiences.
  - Alex3917 16y ago
    The first speaker in this public radio series explains the issue extremely well: http://www.wpr.org/book/100307a.cfm http://www.wpr.org/book/100307a.cfm After you listen to that five minute or so clip, check out this writeup on the addiction portion of the ACE study: http://www.nijc.org/pdfs/Subject%20Matter%20Articles/Drugs%20and%20Alc/ACE%20Study%20-%20OriginsofAddiction.pdf http://www.nijc.org/pdfs/Subject%20Matter%20Articles/Drugs%2... And if you want to read the original ACE study, which has over 1,300 cites, you can do so here: http://www.liftchildren.org/admin/upload/The%20Adverse%20Childhood%20Experiences%20(ACE)%20Study%20-%20Felitti,%20Anda,%20et%20al.%20(American%20Journal%20of%20Preventive%20Medicine,%201998).pdf http://www.liftchildren.org/admin/upload/The%20Adverse%20Chi... The basic finding is that addiction doesn't really have anything to do with the molecule in question, but rather it has to do with emotional issues that stem from adverse childhood experiences. And so the way we as a society handle drug addiction is completely wrong, because we're actually making people's drug problems vastly worse instead of treating them.
rue 16y ago
> If you're hard-wired to be impulsive and have a knack for viewing things in a negative light, it is in fact incredibly hard to get rid of such behavioral tendencies simply by "getting off your butt, man." The “fatalistic” view – in that there might be very little to be called “free will” – would assume that nearly all of a person's behaviour is dictated by genes shaped by life experience (response to which also depends on the same). For procrastination, one could coarsely define some archetypes: * Those who don't procrastinate * Those who procrastinate but can overcome the tendency easily or with difficulty * Those who procrastinate and can't overcome it despite trying * Those who procrastinate and won't try to overcome it (either because they don't want to or don't think they'll succeed)
sliverstorm 16y ago
Not sure I agree with you. Simply 'trying to be happy' doesn't work, sure, but I have noticed I feel a lot better & happier when I'm exercising. When I don't feel good, I really don't want to exercise, but I know that I just have to get up and do it, and I'll start to feel better in a week or so. At least for me, it's a self-perpetuating cycle, and there is no secret trick to breaking it, other than doing it
radu_floricica 16y ago
You may have read the article before it was updated, but there is a note and a couple of comments addressing this. Basically this is a somewhat simplified model, and the papers on which it is based view things more complex then impulsivness = hard-wired: An important note is that the full version of TMT places a constant in the denominator to prevent the denominator from skyrocketing into infinity as delay approaches 0. Also, 'impulsiveness' here is a substitute for 'susceptibility to delay,' something which may vary by task, whereas 'impulsiveness' sounds like a stable character trait that might not help to explain having different motivations to perform different tasks.

by apl 16y ago

Qz 16y ago

I mostly agree with you, but I'm wondering what precisely you mean by 'hard-wired to be impulsive'.

ippisl 16y ago
Hyperactivity and impulsivity are two of the primary characteristics of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). So Adhd is one example of hard-wiring that affects impulsivity.
- Qz 16y ago
  I guess what I take issue with is the use of the term 'hard-wired' as the exact causes of ADHD are not known, nor is it necessarily permanent.
  - Avshalom 16y ago
    Human beings are giant incestuous continuum of software firmware and hardware. "Hard-wired" in casual conversation, i.e. this forum, is a very common catch-all for "condition we can't (or think we can't) think ourselves out of." connotations, they exist.
    - Qz 16y ago
      I know what the term means, but that doesn't make it true. The parenthetical in your statement is my point precisely; hardly 'hard-wired' if it's potentially a product of misguided thinking.

Alex3917 16y ago

"Works for mild cases, but has little bearing on genuine pathological procrastination." My guess is that 'clinical' procrastination, like drug addiction, largely stems from Adverse Childhood Experiences and should be treated the same way. Although I haven't actually looked through the research yet. As for any attention deficit tendencies, these can be trained via meditation.

Alex3917 16y ago
Not sure why I'm being downmodded, as the same negative life outcomes (e.g. alcoholism or depression) predicted by adverse childhood experiences correlate very strongly with procrastination: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=Lu4r0H_wcVcC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=procrastination+adverse+childhood+experiences&ots=-e3gobFthQ&sig=8sDMNK55Tpu5wzfmxgnOgFgAk-A#v=onepage&q&f=false http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=Lu4r0H_wc...
gcheong 16y ago
I would be interested in the research you are referring to showing that drug addiction largely stems from adverse childhood experiences.
- Alex3917 16y ago
  The first speaker in this public radio series explains the issue extremely well: http://www.wpr.org/book/100307a.cfm http://www.wpr.org/book/100307a.cfm After you listen to that five minute or so clip, check out this writeup on the addiction portion of the ACE study: http://www.nijc.org/pdfs/Subject%20Matter%20Articles/Drugs%20and%20Alc/ACE%20Study%20-%20OriginsofAddiction.pdf http://www.nijc.org/pdfs/Subject%20Matter%20Articles/Drugs%2... And if you want to read the original ACE study, which has over 1,300 cites, you can do so here: http://www.liftchildren.org/admin/upload/The%20Adverse%20Childhood%20Experiences%20(ACE)%20Study%20-%20Felitti,%20Anda,%20et%20al.%20(American%20Journal%20of%20Preventive%20Medicine,%201998).pdf http://www.liftchildren.org/admin/upload/The%20Adverse%20Chi... The basic finding is that addiction doesn't really have anything to do with the molecule in question, but rather it has to do with emotional issues that stem from adverse childhood experiences. And so the way we as a society handle drug addiction is completely wrong, because we're actually making people's drug problems vastly worse instead of treating them.

rue 16y ago

> If you're hard-wired to be impulsive and have a knack for viewing things in a negative light, it is in fact incredibly hard to get rid of such behavioral tendencies simply by "getting off your butt, man." The “fatalistic” view – in that there might be very little to be called “free will” – would assume that nearly all of a person's behaviour is dictated by genes shaped by life experience (response to which also depends on the same). For procrastination, one could coarsely define some archetypes: * Those who don't procrastinate * Those who procrastinate but can overcome the tendency easily or with difficulty * Those who procrastinate and can't overcome it despite trying * Those who procrastinate and won't try to overcome it (either because they don't want to or don't think they'll succeed)

sliverstorm 16y ago

Not sure I agree with you. Simply 'trying to be happy' doesn't work, sure, but I have noticed I feel a lot better & happier when I'm exercising. When I don't feel good, I really don't want to exercise, but I know that I just have to get up and do it, and I'll start to feel better in a week or so. At least for me, it's a self-perpetuating cycle, and there is no secret trick to breaking it, other than doing it

radu_floricica 16y ago

You may have read the article before it was updated, but there is a note and a couple of comments addressing this. Basically this is a somewhat simplified model, and the papers on which it is based view things more complex then impulsivness = hard-wired: An important note is that the full version of TMT places a constant in the denominator to prevent the denominator from skyrocketing into infinity as delay approaches 0. Also, 'impulsiveness' here is a substitute for 'susceptibility to delay,' something which may vary by task, whereas 'impulsiveness' sounds like a stable character trait that might not help to explain having different motivations to perform different tasks.