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I don't think upgrading to python 3 will be as hard as rewriting the entire thing, but rewriting does come with the benefit that you are not stuck with the prob

I don't think upgrading to python 3 will be as hard as rewriting the entire thing, but rewriting does come with the benefit that you are not stuck with the problems that come with dynamic typing in a huge codebase, and i'm assuming this is why sticking with python is hard. They also said a faster language will improve their server.

zo1 7y ago
This is perhaps a very big misconception with python usage. Just because it has "dynamic" or "duck" typing, doesn't mean that you have to consider chaotic and unpredictable data running through your code paths. It's just not the case. In a typical codebase, it's probably 98% very specific and known data types linked to the variables in your code. With the remaining 2% being things that are just "easier" to solve with dynamic typing rather than coming up with complicated interface/inheritance hierarchies that you typically find in compiled languages. And with type-hinting now being there in python, you have a very good way of "codifying" that dynamic or duck-typing. Such that you can expect almost 100% knowledge of all the data types coming in/out of your classes/functions. At this point, I'd argue it's got one of the most robust "type" systems out there, if one can call it that at all. Just don't use text editor + MyPy, or VSCode for your python development, and you'll be in good hands. I.e. Use PyCharm.
- makapuf 7y ago
  Re: your last sentence, what is text editor + my so bad ? How does pycharm warrant this definitive advices ?
  - zo1 7y ago
    Honestly, at this point mypy is inferior to the built-in PyCharm when it comes to speed, integration and in some cases the type-inference as well. I've also compared it to the VS python language server and it too doesn't stack up. The other metric would be what a person coming from established, full-fledged IDEs such as VS would expect. With PyCharm, you get intellisense almost on-par with what you get from VS for C#/VB, assuming you use type-hints that is. Not trying to be difficult, but I'm being honest about them providing a really good python experience that is for the most part free. There is no need to putz-around with VScode, json configs, plugins, mypy, etc and still end up getting a relatively inferior experience. Doubly so for new-developers.
    - karlicoss 7y ago
      They actually added a daemon recently that should help to speed things up (https://mypy.readthedocs.io/en/latest/mypy_daemon.html https://mypy.readthedocs.io/en/latest/mypy_daemon.html) . Haven't had a chance to try it yet though.
ptx 7y ago
Instead of rewriting with static types, they could just gradually add them – Python 3 supports static typing[1] with the actual type-checking done by external[2] tools. [1] https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html [2] http://www.mypy-lang.org/ http://www.mypy-lang.org/

zo1 7y ago

This is perhaps a very big misconception with python usage. Just because it has "dynamic" or "duck" typing, doesn't mean that you have to consider chaotic and unpredictable data running through your code paths. It's just not the case. In a typical codebase, it's probably 98% very specific and known data types linked to the variables in your code. With the remaining 2% being things that are just "easier" to solve with dynamic typing rather than coming up with complicated interface/inheritance hierarchies that you typically find in compiled languages. And with type-hinting now being there in python, you have a very good way of "codifying" that dynamic or duck-typing. Such that you can expect almost 100% knowledge of all the data types coming in/out of your classes/functions. At this point, I'd argue it's got one of the most robust "type" systems out there, if one can call it that at all. Just don't use text editor + MyPy, or VSCode for your python development, and you'll be in good hands. I.e. Use PyCharm.

makapuf 7y ago
Re: your last sentence, what is text editor + my so bad ? How does pycharm warrant this definitive advices ?
- zo1 7y ago
  Honestly, at this point mypy is inferior to the built-in PyCharm when it comes to speed, integration and in some cases the type-inference as well. I've also compared it to the VS python language server and it too doesn't stack up. The other metric would be what a person coming from established, full-fledged IDEs such as VS would expect. With PyCharm, you get intellisense almost on-par with what you get from VS for C#/VB, assuming you use type-hints that is. Not trying to be difficult, but I'm being honest about them providing a really good python experience that is for the most part free. There is no need to putz-around with VScode, json configs, plugins, mypy, etc and still end up getting a relatively inferior experience. Doubly so for new-developers.
  - karlicoss 7y ago
    They actually added a daemon recently that should help to speed things up (https://mypy.readthedocs.io/en/latest/mypy_daemon.html https://mypy.readthedocs.io/en/latest/mypy_daemon.html) . Haven't had a chance to try it yet though.

ptx 7y ago

Instead of rewriting with static types, they could just gradually add them – Python 3 supports static typing[1] with the actual type-checking done by external[2] tools. [1] https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html https://docs.python.org/3/library/typing.html [2] http://www.mypy-lang.org/ http://www.mypy-lang.org/