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". . . die on our own terms rather than on nature’s." Have you fleshed out what that might possibly mean, or how that could ever happen? Unless our body/mind

by hsitz 7y ago

". . . die on our own terms rather than on nature’s." Have you fleshed out what that might possibly mean, or how that could ever happen? Unless our body/mind is "naturally" declining (i.e., because of nature), there would seem to be no reason for a well-functioning person to choose to die. Nature is always going to dictate the most important terms.

ThrowawayR2 7y ago
> "...there would seem to be no reason for a well-functioning person to choose to die..." -Plain old ennui. Don't underestimate this. -Depression from alienation because society and culture has evolved over centuries beyond their capacity to accept change or has evolved to a point that society no longer accepts them. -Grief at the death of loved ones, either accidentally or through their own choice to check out. -Grief at the estrangement of loved ones as their personality and beliefs change over time. -Loss of one's accumulated wealth and privilege, whether by accident, incompetence, or malice of others I'm sure that many more are possible.
- hsitz 7y ago
  Precisely why I included the adjective, "well-functioning". . . . I would add that basically everything you list is why there exists in human cultures a general disapproval of suicide, because people may feel bad in the situations you list, but suicide is not a good answer; in most cases the person's feelings will change and they will be glad they chose not to kill themselves. Deciding to die for reasons like those listed is not generally considered "dying with dignity"; it's a tragic case of people becoming overwhelmed by feeling to their own detriment.
  - ThrowawayR2 7y ago
    True but the point is that immortality doesn't automatically include "well-functioning" as part of the deal. Life goes on even if one isn't subject to aging.
    - hsitz 7y ago
      Ha, yes, true. But I was also specifically responding to the OP who was excited that with a longer life we would be able to "die on our own terms". I would say, first, that our lives are already plenty long enough to "die on our own terms" for any of the reasons you listed (and, sadly, many people do). And second, I would be a little surprised if any of those reasons match what OP was thinking of when he/she expressed a longing to "die on our own terms."
      - hsitz 7y ago
        Adding on to my own last post, here is a link to something that I would describe as an admirable death, a death a woman made "on her own terms".[1] And yet it was most certainly one that was forced on her by "Nature", by her own natural decline, a woman who took her life because her Alzheimer's disease was advancing. [1] http://deadatnoon.com/ http://deadatnoon.com/
      - xvector 7y ago
        > I would say, first, that our lives are already plenty long enough to "die on our own terms" I wouldn’t agree. Plenty of people - I’d argue most - would not want to die at 75 years if they were still in their mental and physical prime. And after a few hundred years, I imagine some people would like to close their own story. Point being - we shouldn’t lose everything unless we consent to losing everything.

by hsitz 7y ago

ThrowawayR2 7y ago

> "...there would seem to be no reason for a well-functioning person to choose to die..." -Plain old ennui. Don't underestimate this. -Depression from alienation because society and culture has evolved over centuries beyond their capacity to accept change or has evolved to a point that society no longer accepts them. -Grief at the death of loved ones, either accidentally or through their own choice to check out. -Grief at the estrangement of loved ones as their personality and beliefs change over time. -Loss of one's accumulated wealth and privilege, whether by accident, incompetence, or malice of others I'm sure that many more are possible.

hsitz 7y ago
Precisely why I included the adjective, "well-functioning". . . . I would add that basically everything you list is why there exists in human cultures a general disapproval of suicide, because people may feel bad in the situations you list, but suicide is not a good answer; in most cases the person's feelings will change and they will be glad they chose not to kill themselves. Deciding to die for reasons like those listed is not generally considered "dying with dignity"; it's a tragic case of people becoming overwhelmed by feeling to their own detriment.
- ThrowawayR2 7y ago
  True but the point is that immortality doesn't automatically include "well-functioning" as part of the deal. Life goes on even if one isn't subject to aging.
  - hsitz 7y ago
    Ha, yes, true. But I was also specifically responding to the OP who was excited that with a longer life we would be able to "die on our own terms". I would say, first, that our lives are already plenty long enough to "die on our own terms" for any of the reasons you listed (and, sadly, many people do). And second, I would be a little surprised if any of those reasons match what OP was thinking of when he/she expressed a longing to "die on our own terms."
    - hsitz 7y ago
      Adding on to my own last post, here is a link to something that I would describe as an admirable death, a death a woman made "on her own terms".[1] And yet it was most certainly one that was forced on her by "Nature", by her own natural decline, a woman who took her life because her Alzheimer's disease was advancing. [1] http://deadatnoon.com/ http://deadatnoon.com/
    - xvector 7y ago
      > I would say, first, that our lives are already plenty long enough to "die on our own terms" I wouldn’t agree. Plenty of people - I’d argue most - would not want to die at 75 years if they were still in their mental and physical prime. And after a few hundred years, I imagine some people would like to close their own story. Point being - we shouldn’t lose everything unless we consent to losing everything.