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proof is in the pudding on that one, sorry don't think there are academics studying this but it's an obvious outcome from the war that was Go/Scala/Node. Go is

proof is in the pudding on that one, sorry don't think there are academics studying this but it's an obvious outcome from the war that was Go/Scala/Node. Go is eating Scalas lunch because its easy to understand and communities are stronger than individuals. Sure Scala has more 'features' but Rob Pike would say every feature has a cost and you need to weigh that, didn't see that ever happen in Scala. Go is taking the time to get each piece right and I'm glad for it.

MiroF 7y ago
Adoption isn't everything and google has incredible marketing sway. Tensorflow almost won the ML framework wars despite being clearly outclassed by Torch and it took until recently for Torch to overcome the Google brand name
- yahyaheee 7y ago
  Marketing and they understand how to build communities, this is actually the most important thing. TF isn't a great product so thats showing through now, Go and K8s are and you don't see the backtick there.
jkachmar 7y ago
Another commenter points out that Go has Google backing it, which is a significant confounding factor in terms of figuring out how good it is on its own merits. I’ll add to this and say that Go is a language that is very well-suited for Google’s issues. Namely, take a bunch of engineers with a particular area of familiarity (e.g. familiarity with C and/or Java) and throw them at code, scaling up by number-of-engineers where necessary. My issue with pointing to this and calling it “practical” and “easy to understand” is twofold: (1) Go implicitly makes its ease of understanding dependent on an having existing background knowledge of concepts that the HN crowd is likely to have, themselves, which biases people but isn’t particularly easy to learn on its own merits (versus, say, Python) (2) Most companies cannot afford to solve engineering problems by throwing more bodies at it, but with Go your option is either that or leveraging external code generation As far as “taking the time to get each piece right”, this stuff isn’t cutting edge technology development! Go isn’t doing dependent typing or borrow checking or scoped effects! Everything that people lambast the language over not having is old hat, it’s like defending a car manufacturer who chose to use carburetors over fuel injection by saying that they’re trying to figure out how to do it right.
- yahyaheee 7y ago
  Sorry those just aren't legitimate analogies. As I mention before every feature has a cost, Go is highly concerned with how those costs impact the community. In doing so they have created a language thats highly maintainable and efficient. Even at small companies there is turnover and you being 'really smart' with some abstraction has an impact, I've seen this plenty first hand.
  - jkachmar 7y ago
    Counterpoint, regarding community: the Rust programming language has a much more vocal, cohesive, and engaged community than Go does in my experience, even though it has a fraction of the corporate backing. Counterpoint, regarding “reducing the cost of features”: Go is spreading a simplified understanding of what garbage collection performance means to a generation of programmers by providing almost no configuration over their GC settings. I’ve had people say that Go’s GC is obviously the best, without any point of reference with which to compare it. What Go has done here is pick a reasonable set of trade-offs to make in their garbage collector, hard-code most of these settings into the runtime system, and package that into the philosophy of “configuration is bad”.
    - yahyaheee 7y ago
      Rust has a pretty great community, and I don't think you need corporate backing for a community. I'm just stressing it's one of the most (if not the most) important aspects of a language. I will say Rust it isn't nearly as easy to enter as Go, that should be somewhat expected by their desired feature set. Likewise, they aren't as concerned with the cost of features as Go is. I would somewhat agree with the GC stuff, I think having a couple more levers there with sensible defaults is probably ideal.
- apta 7y ago
  Practically everything you mentioned is already done better by Java or C#. Not to mention them having advantages that golang isn't even close to solving.
tsss 7y ago
Go is one of the worst things to happen to the programming community in recent times, truly a 20 year step back that ignores practically everything we have learned about programming. > Go is taking the time to get each piece right and I'm glad for it. Have you ever taken a look at the error handling in Go standard libraries? Rob Pike is constantly badly reinventing monadic error handling patterns and doing it wrong; He even admitted to this himself.
- yahyaheee 7y ago
  O here we go with more canned Go insults. It's actually written by a bunch of old guys that have seen the evolution of programming and made the design for very specific reasons that you apparently can't understand. Error handling is an active topic of consideration, but I kinda like how it is now. Have you ever maintained production Scala code? I have and it was an absolute nightmare compared to Go.

MiroF 7y ago

Adoption isn't everything and google has incredible marketing sway. Tensorflow almost won the ML framework wars despite being clearly outclassed by Torch and it took until recently for Torch to overcome the Google brand name

yahyaheee 7y ago
Marketing and they understand how to build communities, this is actually the most important thing. TF isn't a great product so thats showing through now, Go and K8s are and you don't see the backtick there.

jkachmar 7y ago

Another commenter points out that Go has Google backing it, which is a significant confounding factor in terms of figuring out how good it is on its own merits. I’ll add to this and say that Go is a language that is very well-suited for Google’s issues. Namely, take a bunch of engineers with a particular area of familiarity (e.g. familiarity with C and/or Java) and throw them at code, scaling up by number-of-engineers where necessary. My issue with pointing to this and calling it “practical” and “easy to understand” is twofold: (1) Go implicitly makes its ease of understanding dependent on an having existing background knowledge of concepts that the HN crowd is likely to have, themselves, which biases people but isn’t particularly easy to learn on its own merits (versus, say, Python) (2) Most companies cannot afford to solve engineering problems by throwing more bodies at it, but with Go your option is either that or leveraging external code generation As far as “taking the time to get each piece right”, this stuff isn’t cutting edge technology development! Go isn’t doing dependent typing or borrow checking or scoped effects! Everything that people lambast the language over not having is old hat, it’s like defending a car manufacturer who chose to use carburetors over fuel injection by saying that they’re trying to figure out how to do it right.

yahyaheee 7y ago
Sorry those just aren't legitimate analogies. As I mention before every feature has a cost, Go is highly concerned with how those costs impact the community. In doing so they have created a language thats highly maintainable and efficient. Even at small companies there is turnover and you being 'really smart' with some abstraction has an impact, I've seen this plenty first hand.
- jkachmar 7y ago
  Counterpoint, regarding community: the Rust programming language has a much more vocal, cohesive, and engaged community than Go does in my experience, even though it has a fraction of the corporate backing. Counterpoint, regarding “reducing the cost of features”: Go is spreading a simplified understanding of what garbage collection performance means to a generation of programmers by providing almost no configuration over their GC settings. I’ve had people say that Go’s GC is obviously the best, without any point of reference with which to compare it. What Go has done here is pick a reasonable set of trade-offs to make in their garbage collector, hard-code most of these settings into the runtime system, and package that into the philosophy of “configuration is bad”.
  - yahyaheee 7y ago
    Rust has a pretty great community, and I don't think you need corporate backing for a community. I'm just stressing it's one of the most (if not the most) important aspects of a language. I will say Rust it isn't nearly as easy to enter as Go, that should be somewhat expected by their desired feature set. Likewise, they aren't as concerned with the cost of features as Go is. I would somewhat agree with the GC stuff, I think having a couple more levers there with sensible defaults is probably ideal.
apta 7y ago
Practically everything you mentioned is already done better by Java or C#. Not to mention them having advantages that golang isn't even close to solving.

tsss 7y ago

Go is one of the worst things to happen to the programming community in recent times, truly a 20 year step back that ignores practically everything we have learned about programming. > Go is taking the time to get each piece right and I'm glad for it. Have you ever taken a look at the error handling in Go standard libraries? Rob Pike is constantly badly reinventing monadic error handling patterns and doing it wrong; He even admitted to this himself.

yahyaheee 7y ago
O here we go with more canned Go insults. It's actually written by a bunch of old guys that have seen the evolution of programming and made the design for very specific reasons that you apparently can't understand. Error handling is an active topic of consideration, but I kinda like how it is now. Have you ever maintained production Scala code? I have and it was an absolute nightmare compared to Go.