4 ms·

The paradox of tolerance [1] is a PITA. At the end of the day a santa hat is no big deal, but by the logic of "even a single person being offended is one too ma

by phn 7y ago

The paradox of tolerance [1] is a PITA. At the end of the day a santa hat is no big deal, but by the logic of "even a single person being offended is one too many", taken to the extreme, all that is left is the lowest common denominator of what all humans tolerate (if there is such a thing). On a more practical note, I find it hard to reason on how deal with issues like this. It's like if you try to be level headed, avoid conflict, and try to see things from the other side you already lost, because there is no corresponding empathy coming from the other side. The only solution is to give in, or deal with an offended internet mob. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

OkGoDoIt 7y ago
Why is someone being offended such a big deal nowadays? It seems everyone is always trying to make sure no one can ever be the slightest bit offended. Doesn’t necessarily feel like the most important metric we should be optimizing for as a society.
- rhacker 7y ago
  It's the PC (politically correct) movement. PC definitely needed a lot of push in 2000. It has certainly helped correct a lot of language problems, problems that either reinforce stereotypes, gender and/or sexual orientation issues. Indeed it is part of the reason people stopped saying Japs or the N. word or fat person. The reality is that if you were one of the people that is sidelined, you would feel it too. It's part of the reason we need to keep at it. So while PC'ism may have changed your companies end-of-year greeting cards from "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year" to "Happy Holidays and Happy New Year", or even just "Season's Greetings", you can probably imagine that's helped 10 to 20 percent of the workforce (that are likely atheist, agnostic, jewish or muslim or whatever feel more included in the greeting.
- goto11 7y ago
  This is nothing new though. Look at things like the Hayes Code or the Comics Code. It is business as usual trying not to offend or alienate important demographics. But as values and power structures change, the feeling you have to accommodate change. If you feel like this is getting worse compared to those times, it might be because you belong to a demographic which is losing cultural power.
alkonaut 7y ago
I think the answer should be “we hear your complaint and we will listen closely to hear if others feel the same way and act accordingly. We will also weigh your feedback when deciding what to do for next holiday season. In the meantime if you find it offensive we suggest you turn it off or use a version that doesn’t have it”. There are so many dimensions to this. No one is forced to sit and watch it. It’s not front and center in the community forums (making the community itself exclusive) and so on. One person being hurt is one too many, but one person being offended for what the absolute majority probably have decided is for the sake of being offended can’t be the cause of this. We have come a long way when it comes to having more inclusive communities especially for miniorities. I‘m sure there are trans people in OSS now that wouldn’t have felt welcome ten years ago. I just fail to see the parallel and believe there is a minority somewhere longing to get into online communities but that don’t feel welcome because of Santa hats?

by phn 7y ago

OkGoDoIt 7y ago

Why is someone being offended such a big deal nowadays? It seems everyone is always trying to make sure no one can ever be the slightest bit offended. Doesn’t necessarily feel like the most important metric we should be optimizing for as a society.

rhacker 7y ago
It's the PC (politically correct) movement. PC definitely needed a lot of push in 2000. It has certainly helped correct a lot of language problems, problems that either reinforce stereotypes, gender and/or sexual orientation issues. Indeed it is part of the reason people stopped saying Japs or the N. word or fat person. The reality is that if you were one of the people that is sidelined, you would feel it too. It's part of the reason we need to keep at it. So while PC'ism may have changed your companies end-of-year greeting cards from "Merry Christmas and Happy New Year" to "Happy Holidays and Happy New Year", or even just "Season's Greetings", you can probably imagine that's helped 10 to 20 percent of the workforce (that are likely atheist, agnostic, jewish or muslim or whatever feel more included in the greeting.
goto11 7y ago
This is nothing new though. Look at things like the Hayes Code or the Comics Code. It is business as usual trying not to offend or alienate important demographics. But as values and power structures change, the feeling you have to accommodate change. If you feel like this is getting worse compared to those times, it might be because you belong to a demographic which is losing cultural power.

alkonaut 7y ago

I think the answer should be “we hear your complaint and we will listen closely to hear if others feel the same way and act accordingly. We will also weigh your feedback when deciding what to do for next holiday season. In the meantime if you find it offensive we suggest you turn it off or use a version that doesn’t have it”. There are so many dimensions to this. No one is forced to sit and watch it. It’s not front and center in the community forums (making the community itself exclusive) and so on. One person being hurt is one too many, but one person being offended for what the absolute majority probably have decided is for the sake of being offended can’t be the cause of this. We have come a long way when it comes to having more inclusive communities especially for miniorities. I‘m sure there are trans people in OSS now that wouldn’t have felt welcome ten years ago. I just fail to see the parallel and believe there is a minority somewhere longing to get into online communities but that don’t feel welcome because of Santa hats?