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> Santa is about as non-religious as you can get. Of course he's religious, it's a mascot for a Christian holiday. Don't confuse American commercialism's explo

> Santa is about as non-religious as you can get. Of course he's religious, it's a mascot for a Christian holiday. Don't confuse American commercialism's exploitation of Christmas & Santa with its religious roots.

gwbas1c 7y ago
Christmas's roots are from pagan traditions around the new year's. They were christianized for many reasons. Gift giving around the end of the year has been around since before 0 BC. (And before someone screams "citation needed," I'll just say that it's well known, and if you didn't know it by now, there's a thing called Google and Wikipedia that you can go look at.)
- spritecranberry 7y ago
  cITaTiOn NEEdeD
- tomnipotent 7y ago
  > Christmas's roots are from pagan traditions So? Most religious traditions were stolen, whoop de do. What matters is how they're practiced in 2019, in which case Christmas is almost synonymous with Christianity. > I'll just say that it's well known There is no actual confidence in how all of this stuff came to be, just a lot of conjecture - and so no, it's not well known at all.
  - gwbas1c 7y ago
    Take a look at the comments in this thread about how non-christians observe Christmas. Christianity has no monopoly on Christmas.
    - tomnipotent 7y ago
      Except they practice gift-giving without any of the rest that comes along with - that's not Christmas, that's commercial exploitation. Big difference.
      - hoopleheaded 7y ago
        They call it Christmas though. So it is not your version of Christmas but theirs. Also you can't be certain it is commercial exploitation. What if some you are referring to give mostly homemade and charitable gifts. Certainly would be the minority but you are lumping a lot of people together.
  - Lammy 7y ago
    It seems contradictory for you to say in your previous comment that Christmas as practiced in 2019 by Americans doesn't matter when discussing Santa because of the religious roots, and then follow that up by saying the history of the religious roots don't matter because they're practiced differently in 2019.
- goto11 7y ago
  > (And before someone screams "citation needed," I'll just say that it's well known, and if you didn't know it by now, there's a thing called Google and Wikipedia that you can go look at.) Lots of beliefs are "well known" and nevertheless wrong. Just look at all the people, even in this thread, claiming that Santa Claus was invented by Coca Cola, even though a simple google image search will reveal illustrations of Santa from before Coco Cola was founded. As for the pagan traditions around new years they are not very well documented and a lot is speculation. Of course gift-giving is known throughout history, but the figure of Santa Claus is associated with the Christian celebration. I'm pretty sure you wont find any reference to Santa Claus or Father Christmas from before Christianity!
radicalbyte 7y ago
Modern Santa was invented by Coca Cola based very loosely on St Nicholas. In American Gods he'd be the God of Capitalism I guess. As a symbol of American capitalism it's rather fitting that Microsoft are using him. St Nicholas (sinterklaas) is celebrated in The Netherlands on 6th of December. You may remember it from The Daily Show and other US TV outlets who were covering the archaic tradition of black face in the celebrations.
- goto11 7y ago
  It is a myth that Coca Cola invented Santa Claus. He was a well-known figure in the US before Coca Cola stated using him.
etxm 7y ago
Bringing nature indoors, celebrating the Yule, and Santa were all pilfered from pagan and Norse people.
- goto11 7y ago
  Santa Claus was pilfered from pagan and Norse people? I find that hard to believe.
nitwit005 7y ago
It's a holiday widely celebrated by non-Christians. People mostly care about the gift giving bit, alcohol, and food, rather than any religious angle. You see similar things going on for Valentine's day, Easter, Saint Patricks day, etc. Sure, there is a religious aspect, but the non-religious celebration is dominant.
- gwbas1c 7y ago
  I work on a globally-distributed team. My colleagues in India had a Christmas celebrations in their office. I asked them if they celebrated it growing up, and they told me they first started celebrating it in University. We have Diwali parties in our US office. Everyone has fun.
leggomylibro 7y ago
But St. Nicholas et al. did not start with Christianity - isn't the myth of 'Santa' an amalgam of all kinds of different pagan cultures and traditions? It seems like the whole 'Christmas' holiday is mostly an artifact of the church trying to tie together wide and diverse groups of people under their umbrella. I guess you could use a snowflake or a cornucopia or something as a generic 'winter holiday' thing, and people have been doing that for awhile; "Happy Holidays" usurped "Merry Christmas" decades ago. Or you could use a bevy of emojis representing the holiday's secular roots, but would it have been better if they added emojis for St. Nick's mythological companions like Belshnickel, Zwarte Pete, and Krampus next to the santa hat? Maybe if they really wanted to polish this essential feature for production use, they could have different emoji sets for different holidays and a modal to choose which one you wanted. I dunno, I feel so bad for people who haven't had the drive to do anything fun or playful beaten out of them yet. "Cry, the beloved country, for the unborn child that's the inheritor of our fear."
- gwbas1c 7y ago
  > "Happy Holidays" usurped "Merry Christmas" decades ago. There are people who find "Happy Holidays" offensive, as they consider it part of the manufactured war on Christmas. I guess this is why politics and holidays don't mix!

gwbas1c 7y ago

Christmas's roots are from pagan traditions around the new year's. They were christianized for many reasons. Gift giving around the end of the year has been around since before 0 BC. (And before someone screams "citation needed," I'll just say that it's well known, and if you didn't know it by now, there's a thing called Google and Wikipedia that you can go look at.)

spritecranberry 7y ago
cITaTiOn NEEdeD
tomnipotent 7y ago
> Christmas's roots are from pagan traditions So? Most religious traditions were stolen, whoop de do. What matters is how they're practiced in 2019, in which case Christmas is almost synonymous with Christianity. > I'll just say that it's well known There is no actual confidence in how all of this stuff came to be, just a lot of conjecture - and so no, it's not well known at all.
- gwbas1c 7y ago
  Take a look at the comments in this thread about how non-christians observe Christmas. Christianity has no monopoly on Christmas.
  - tomnipotent 7y ago
    Except they practice gift-giving without any of the rest that comes along with - that's not Christmas, that's commercial exploitation. Big difference.
    - hoopleheaded 7y ago
      They call it Christmas though. So it is not your version of Christmas but theirs. Also you can't be certain it is commercial exploitation. What if some you are referring to give mostly homemade and charitable gifts. Certainly would be the minority but you are lumping a lot of people together.
- Lammy 7y ago
  It seems contradictory for you to say in your previous comment that Christmas as practiced in 2019 by Americans doesn't matter when discussing Santa because of the religious roots, and then follow that up by saying the history of the religious roots don't matter because they're practiced differently in 2019.
goto11 7y ago
> (And before someone screams "citation needed," I'll just say that it's well known, and if you didn't know it by now, there's a thing called Google and Wikipedia that you can go look at.) Lots of beliefs are "well known" and nevertheless wrong. Just look at all the people, even in this thread, claiming that Santa Claus was invented by Coca Cola, even though a simple google image search will reveal illustrations of Santa from before Coco Cola was founded. As for the pagan traditions around new years they are not very well documented and a lot is speculation. Of course gift-giving is known throughout history, but the figure of Santa Claus is associated with the Christian celebration. I'm pretty sure you wont find any reference to Santa Claus or Father Christmas from before Christianity!

radicalbyte 7y ago

Modern Santa was invented by Coca Cola based very loosely on St Nicholas. In American Gods he'd be the God of Capitalism I guess. As a symbol of American capitalism it's rather fitting that Microsoft are using him. St Nicholas (sinterklaas) is celebrated in The Netherlands on 6th of December. You may remember it from The Daily Show and other US TV outlets who were covering the archaic tradition of black face in the celebrations.

goto11 7y ago
It is a myth that Coca Cola invented Santa Claus. He was a well-known figure in the US before Coca Cola stated using him.

etxm 7y ago

Bringing nature indoors, celebrating the Yule, and Santa were all pilfered from pagan and Norse people.

goto11 7y ago
Santa Claus was pilfered from pagan and Norse people? I find that hard to believe.

nitwit005 7y ago

It's a holiday widely celebrated by non-Christians. People mostly care about the gift giving bit, alcohol, and food, rather than any religious angle. You see similar things going on for Valentine's day, Easter, Saint Patricks day, etc. Sure, there is a religious aspect, but the non-religious celebration is dominant.

gwbas1c 7y ago
I work on a globally-distributed team. My colleagues in India had a Christmas celebrations in their office. I asked them if they celebrated it growing up, and they told me they first started celebrating it in University. We have Diwali parties in our US office. Everyone has fun.

leggomylibro 7y ago

But St. Nicholas et al. did not start with Christianity - isn't the myth of 'Santa' an amalgam of all kinds of different pagan cultures and traditions? It seems like the whole 'Christmas' holiday is mostly an artifact of the church trying to tie together wide and diverse groups of people under their umbrella. I guess you could use a snowflake or a cornucopia or something as a generic 'winter holiday' thing, and people have been doing that for awhile; "Happy Holidays" usurped "Merry Christmas" decades ago. Or you could use a bevy of emojis representing the holiday's secular roots, but would it have been better if they added emojis for St. Nick's mythological companions like Belshnickel, Zwarte Pete, and Krampus next to the santa hat? Maybe if they really wanted to polish this essential feature for production use, they could have different emoji sets for different holidays and a modal to choose which one you wanted. I dunno, I feel so bad for people who haven't had the drive to do anything fun or playful beaten out of them yet. "Cry, the beloved country, for the unborn child that's the inheritor of our fear."

gwbas1c 7y ago
> "Happy Holidays" usurped "Merry Christmas" decades ago. There are people who find "Happy Holidays" offensive, as they consider it part of the manufactured war on Christmas. I guess this is why politics and holidays don't mix!