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The thing you're completely missing here is that these systems are built by military contractors, so it really shouldn't be too surprising that they have such a

by magduf 7y ago

The thing you're completely missing here is that these systems are built by military contractors, so it really shouldn't be too surprising that they have such awful UI. These companies do not make any commercial products (except Boeing). Their real strength in the marketplace is being really skilled at acquiring valuable government contracts, and being a big enough company (thanks to history and inertia) to actually win these contracts and deliver on them (even if it's late and the product is poor, though it meets all the specs). These companies would not survive if they had to sell their products to consumers. The negative reviews on Amazon would kill them quickly. >I have never built anything for a ship or vehicle. So I may be speaking total stupid to someone in that industry. You don't need to have experience building ship control systems to know this stuff is stupid. You probably drive a car, right? Can you imagine a car with UIs anything like this? If military contractors were doing car UIs, the roads would be a bloodbath.

userbinator 7y ago
Can you imagine a car with UIs anything like this? If military contractors were doing car UIs, the roads would be a bloodbath. Unfortunately, car UIs have also declined in usability thanks to the touchscreen fad, and very poor software behind them too. At least there's still some choice, but I suspect the majority of new buyers were taken in by a flashly salesman presentation and only later discovered all the problems. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20190902 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20190902
- smacktoward 7y ago
  Indeed, and some of the worst offenders are among the most trendy car companies (looking at you, Tesla).
tdfx 7y ago
It's also worth pointing out that there's a serious lack of talent in the defense contracting industry (not universal -- but certainly on average). The pay is typically not very impressive, the working conditions tend to be stressful (constant cost over-runs, impossible deadlines) and inflexible working arrangements (good luck with WFH). Talented people generally gravitate elsewhere with better pay and perks.
- magduf 7y ago
  This isn't quite true. The working conditions tend to be less stressful usually, because by law you cannot be required to work overtime without being paid for it. Every hour you work as a defense contractor must be billable to a government contract, and you must get paid for it. You're also not allowed to work overtime unless the customer agrees to it, which they typically only do if there's a schedule crunch. You're correct about inflexible working arrangements though. WFH isn't very common, and work locations tend to not be in desirable geographic locations. The pay is generally good, certainly much better than working for the government (though without the job security), though it's probably not going to beat a top salary at a FAANG company by a long shot. But how many other jobs do? There seems to be a trend here on HN to assume that the very top-paid positions at FAANG companies are utterly average for the tech industry, and they're just not. Overall, defense contracting is fairly lucrative to people who can obtain and keep a security clearance and aren't completely incompetent, and want a job that doesn't have crazy overtime and lets them have a normal family life. But it definitely won't attract the very top-most talented people, because those people can go to work at FAANG companies for a lot more money.

by magduf 7y ago

userbinator 7y ago

Can you imagine a car with UIs anything like this? If military contractors were doing car UIs, the roads would be a bloodbath. Unfortunately, car UIs have also declined in usability thanks to the touchscreen fad, and very poor software behind them too. At least there's still some choice, but I suspect the majority of new buyers were taken in by a flashly salesman presentation and only later discovered all the problems. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20190902 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20190902

smacktoward 7y ago
Indeed, and some of the worst offenders are among the most trendy car companies (looking at you, Tesla).

tdfx 7y ago

It's also worth pointing out that there's a serious lack of talent in the defense contracting industry (not universal -- but certainly on average). The pay is typically not very impressive, the working conditions tend to be stressful (constant cost over-runs, impossible deadlines) and inflexible working arrangements (good luck with WFH). Talented people generally gravitate elsewhere with better pay and perks.

magduf 7y ago
This isn't quite true. The working conditions tend to be less stressful usually, because by law you cannot be required to work overtime without being paid for it. Every hour you work as a defense contractor must be billable to a government contract, and you must get paid for it. You're also not allowed to work overtime unless the customer agrees to it, which they typically only do if there's a schedule crunch. You're correct about inflexible working arrangements though. WFH isn't very common, and work locations tend to not be in desirable geographic locations. The pay is generally good, certainly much better than working for the government (though without the job security), though it's probably not going to beat a top salary at a FAANG company by a long shot. But how many other jobs do? There seems to be a trend here on HN to assume that the very top-paid positions at FAANG companies are utterly average for the tech industry, and they're just not. Overall, defense contracting is fairly lucrative to people who can obtain and keep a security clearance and aren't completely incompetent, and want a job that doesn't have crazy overtime and lets them have a normal family life. But it definitely won't attract the very top-most talented people, because those people can go to work at FAANG companies for a lot more money.