5 ms·

If we're talking about non-point and shoot cameras, such as DSLRs or Mirrorless Cameras that cost $500+ such as my Sony A6000, I absolutely DO NOT want post-pro

If we're talking about non-point and shoot cameras, such as DSLRs or Mirrorless Cameras that cost $500+ such as my Sony A6000, I absolutely DO NOT want post-processing done on my camera. Portrait mode on my iPhone 7+ looks okay at a glance, but thinks like hair, wires, and twigs are TERRIBLE on closer inspection. Not to say the software couldn't be improved. For example, after taking a 20 second exposure, I have to wait another ~15 seconds before I can take another photo. I'd love for that processing time to be cut down.

lame-robot-hoax 7y ago
I mean, you are using an iPhone 7, iirc that’s the first iPhone to implement portrait mode. The processing time on my iPhone 11 that I just got is minimal. I upgraded from an iPhone 6S so I’m not sure what the processing time was like on iPhones with portrait mode prior to the 11 models though. As well, who’s to say what Apple could do when given an image from a high end camera sensor instead of the tiny one in an iPhone? And lastly, why not just enable power users to turn it off? Sure you can say manpower would be better directed at other problems, but who cares if post processing capabilities are on the camera if you can turn it off? Those who want it use it. Those who don’t don’t.
- krzyk 7y ago
  My wife has iPhone 8, I can't find portrait mode on it (I'm coming from Pixel 3 so I was wondering how it looks on iPhones). When I scroll the photo modes there is no such thing as "portrait". Or maybe it is only for the Plus models with two cameras?
  - zakki 7y ago
    Yeah, it is on plus model including animoji
- throwanem 7y ago
  > who’s to say what Apple could do when given an image from a high end camera sensor instead of the tiny one in an iPhone? Ruin it. But they wouldn't, because there'd be no need. The thing about a big high-end camera sensor is that having one means you don't need to fake bokeh. You can put a good fast prime lens in front of it and get the real thing. Phone cameras have to post-process their way to it because the physics of their small sensors mean they simply aren't capable of capturing enough off-axis light to produce true bokeh.
rolltiide 7y ago
> I'd love for that processing time to be cut down. yeah its called an iPhone 11 PRO
- mcny 7y ago
  My understanding is that the processor on the eleven, eleven pro, and eleven pro max are identical? https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_11-9848.php https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_11-9848.php https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_11_pro-9847.php https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_11_pro-9847.php https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_11_pro_max-9846.php https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_11_pro_max-9846.php
  - rolltiide 7y ago
    faster than a 7+
jiberius 7y ago
The delay after taking long exposures is caused by the camera taking a dark frame with the same exposure length as your actual image. When you take a long exposure, the sensor can exhibit noise caused by "hot pixels". The dark frame is taken with the shutter closed so that the camera can get an image of just the hot pixel noise, which it then subtracts from your actual long exposure. You can turn this off in the settings, but I imagine it's way easier for the camera to correct for this specific kind of noise than for Lightroom to do so. I believe it kicks in once the exposure length is >2" on my Sony A7ii.
- scrumbledober 7y ago
  That's great information and makes me much less frustrated with my slow a6000.
  - throwanem 7y ago
    You can also try turning off long exposure NR in the menus. I don't know if it makes enough of a difference on the a6000 to be worth leaving enabled and paying the extra cost in time, but that's a way to find out.
- tpolzer 7y ago
  On the one hand that's correct. On the other hand you could completely avoid that if you did long exposures the way a Google Pixel (2+ I think) does it (in software): Take lots of short exposures and fuse them. If the device is handheld you get variability in positioning for free, if it's on a tripod, it will automatically wiggle the OIS slightly to achieve the same effect.
  - anamexis 7y ago
    It seems like movement would be effective for averaging out random noise, but the described process isn’t for eliminating random noise, it’s for eliminating persistent hotter pixels on the sensor.
    - 7y ago
unicornporn 7y ago
> Portrait mode on my iPhone 7+ looks okay at a glance, but thinks like hair, wires, and twigs are TERRIBLE on closer inspection. Portrait mode on any phone looks crap. I have not yet seen a picture where fake shallow DOF does not fail and look crap.
- geerlingguy 7y ago
  If you have solid edges (e.g. hair pulled back or bald), and a fairly smooth background already... it looks acceptable. But it's not a substitute for a really nice lens and sensor combo. Maybe someday. I just wish the DSLR/mirrorless manufactuers would invest more in making their RAW files more intelligent. I don't want 'portrait mode' but I do want to be able to focus stack in one image (with originals preserved), do true adjustable HDR (combining exposures), etc. Sony and Nikon have a couple hint at these capabilities, but the software is not easy to use, and don't get me started on moving pictures between camera bodies and wherever they need to be to do things with them (laptop, iPad, phone).
- thamer 7y ago
  These improvements to bokeh on the Pixel 4 and Pixel 4 XL show some pretty good results: https://ai.googleblog.com/2019/12/improvements-to-portrait-mode-on-google.html https://ai.googleblog.com/2019/12/improvements-to-portrait-m...
  - unicornporn 7y ago
    Impossible to say because sample[1] is highly compressed and 800 pixels high (including a white border). [1] https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3Sm2XHss0lA/XffZ95s_KjI/AAAAAAAAFA8/roacPF2oMNwb-f-qp-O9wAYY925gT-AQQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Picture1.png https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3Sm2XHss0lA/XffZ95s_KjI/AAAAAAAAF...
    - erkserkserks 7y ago
      Here’s the full size album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/cwaKemRDusTK5W6SA https://photos.app.goo.gl/cwaKemRDusTK5W6SA

lame-robot-hoax 7y ago

I mean, you are using an iPhone 7, iirc that’s the first iPhone to implement portrait mode. The processing time on my iPhone 11 that I just got is minimal. I upgraded from an iPhone 6S so I’m not sure what the processing time was like on iPhones with portrait mode prior to the 11 models though. As well, who’s to say what Apple could do when given an image from a high end camera sensor instead of the tiny one in an iPhone? And lastly, why not just enable power users to turn it off? Sure you can say manpower would be better directed at other problems, but who cares if post processing capabilities are on the camera if you can turn it off? Those who want it use it. Those who don’t don’t.

krzyk 7y ago
My wife has iPhone 8, I can't find portrait mode on it (I'm coming from Pixel 3 so I was wondering how it looks on iPhones). When I scroll the photo modes there is no such thing as "portrait". Or maybe it is only for the Plus models with two cameras?
- zakki 7y ago
  Yeah, it is on plus model including animoji
throwanem 7y ago
> who’s to say what Apple could do when given an image from a high end camera sensor instead of the tiny one in an iPhone? Ruin it. But they wouldn't, because there'd be no need. The thing about a big high-end camera sensor is that having one means you don't need to fake bokeh. You can put a good fast prime lens in front of it and get the real thing. Phone cameras have to post-process their way to it because the physics of their small sensors mean they simply aren't capable of capturing enough off-axis light to produce true bokeh.

rolltiide 7y ago

> I'd love for that processing time to be cut down. yeah its called an iPhone 11 PRO

mcny 7y ago
My understanding is that the processor on the eleven, eleven pro, and eleven pro max are identical? https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_11-9848.php https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_11-9848.php https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_11_pro-9847.php https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_11_pro-9847.php https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_11_pro_max-9846.php https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_11_pro_max-9846.php
- rolltiide 7y ago
  faster than a 7+

jiberius 7y ago

The delay after taking long exposures is caused by the camera taking a dark frame with the same exposure length as your actual image. When you take a long exposure, the sensor can exhibit noise caused by "hot pixels". The dark frame is taken with the shutter closed so that the camera can get an image of just the hot pixel noise, which it then subtracts from your actual long exposure. You can turn this off in the settings, but I imagine it's way easier for the camera to correct for this specific kind of noise than for Lightroom to do so. I believe it kicks in once the exposure length is >2" on my Sony A7ii.

scrumbledober 7y ago
That's great information and makes me much less frustrated with my slow a6000.
- throwanem 7y ago
  You can also try turning off long exposure NR in the menus. I don't know if it makes enough of a difference on the a6000 to be worth leaving enabled and paying the extra cost in time, but that's a way to find out.
tpolzer 7y ago
On the one hand that's correct. On the other hand you could completely avoid that if you did long exposures the way a Google Pixel (2+ I think) does it (in software): Take lots of short exposures and fuse them. If the device is handheld you get variability in positioning for free, if it's on a tripod, it will automatically wiggle the OIS slightly to achieve the same effect.
- anamexis 7y ago
  It seems like movement would be effective for averaging out random noise, but the described process isn’t for eliminating random noise, it’s for eliminating persistent hotter pixels on the sensor.
  - 7y ago

unicornporn 7y ago

> Portrait mode on my iPhone 7+ looks okay at a glance, but thinks like hair, wires, and twigs are TERRIBLE on closer inspection. Portrait mode on any phone looks crap. I have not yet seen a picture where fake shallow DOF does not fail and look crap.

geerlingguy 7y ago
If you have solid edges (e.g. hair pulled back or bald), and a fairly smooth background already... it looks acceptable. But it's not a substitute for a really nice lens and sensor combo. Maybe someday. I just wish the DSLR/mirrorless manufactuers would invest more in making their RAW files more intelligent. I don't want 'portrait mode' but I do want to be able to focus stack in one image (with originals preserved), do true adjustable HDR (combining exposures), etc. Sony and Nikon have a couple hint at these capabilities, but the software is not easy to use, and don't get me started on moving pictures between camera bodies and wherever they need to be to do things with them (laptop, iPad, phone).
thamer 7y ago
These improvements to bokeh on the Pixel 4 and Pixel 4 XL show some pretty good results: https://ai.googleblog.com/2019/12/improvements-to-portrait-mode-on-google.html https://ai.googleblog.com/2019/12/improvements-to-portrait-m...
- unicornporn 7y ago
  Impossible to say because sample[1] is highly compressed and 800 pixels high (including a white border). [1] https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3Sm2XHss0lA/XffZ95s_KjI/AAAAAAAAFA8/roacPF2oMNwb-f-qp-O9wAYY925gT-AQQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Picture1.png https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3Sm2XHss0lA/XffZ95s_KjI/AAAAAAAAF...
  - erkserkserks 7y ago
    Here’s the full size album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/cwaKemRDusTK5W6SA https://photos.app.goo.gl/cwaKemRDusTK5W6SA