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Right now it's a service: there's no product to see, just a live updated map during the demonstration on Saturday. We are not giving instructions to people as

Right now it's a service: there's no product to see, just a live updated map during the demonstration on Saturday. We are not giving instructions to people as to the route to follow. That is the role of the stewards (what you call organisers, scouts, commanders). We merely provide people with information with which they can make their own decisions. We aim to reduce tension between police and protesters by increasing transparency: our approach is the diametric opposite of encouraging us and them thinking. I would personally be very happy to see kettling banned and support the legal challenges being made to it at the moment. However, if the threat of kettling is being used to prevent peaceful protest and to scare people away from exercising their democrat right to do so then I believe that a tool like Sukey is essential rather than waiting years and years for the law to be changed, not knowing if it ever will be.

mwg66 16y ago
Thanks for answering. You continue to ignore my legitimate concerns, however.
- TimHardy 16y ago
  It's Saturday night/Sunday morning and I think I'm the only idiot who didn't go out and have fun after weeks of hard work ;) Can I direct you to a discussion of these topics here: http://visionon.tv/forum/-/message_boards/view_message/45043 http://visionon.tv/forum/-/message_boards/view_message/45043 If the responses there don't answer all your questions, please come back to me. In fact, email the sukey team and address it in the body "attention Tim Hardy" or contact me via the address on the About page on beyondclicktivism and I promise you I will make sure that each and every one of your legitimate concerns is addressed. Security is highly important to us and if we have failed to communicate that clearly then we need to do better. We are receiving literally thousands of emails, tweets and phone calls, including requests for interviews and clarifications from press around the world. We have a shoe-string budget, no equipment beyond our own personal phones and laptops, no office space beyond what we can borrow for free. None of us are paid for our work on Sukey and many of us also have full-time careers. Please be patient with us. All concerns will be addressed as soon as possible - but there are only so many nights you can do without sleep :)
  - mwg66 16y ago
    Thanks for taking the time and the link. But I'm not sure that thread answers any of the above concerns, really. "We have a shoe-string budget, no equipment beyond our own personal phones and laptops, no office space beyond what we can borrow for free. None of us are paid for our work on Sukey and many of us also have full-time careers." I wont point out the benefits of actually being "open" in then. Limited resources can traditionally be overcome with collaborative development. Again, I commend the effort. But I continue to urge nobody to trust a protest tool until these concerns are properly addressed. These are not difficult questions and the continued absence of answers only confirms my fears for the project.
    - Gausie 16y ago
      "Some minds are like concrete - thoroughly mixed and permanently set" - Benjamin Franklyn or Karl Marx or John Lennon (or insert any other name you like) We're hoping to get code up onto the git today, maybe tomorrow. The guy who's volunteered to do it spent the evening at a party then the night at the New Cross library occupation. He's just gone to bed. I'm sure you'll find something to moan about in the code when you see it - i read negativity towards the entire project from your very first paragraph. When you trawl through the code you'll note that no personal identifiers are stored anywhere. We had to finish the proof of concept in a rush so you'll also see function stubs that do nothing, inconsistencies in APIs, poorly commented code and incredible inefficiencies. These flag some of the areas of future development. But you'll also note that the unfinished or inefficient bits are to do with user functionality. Anything to do with security is not compromised. But I'm not sure any of this is really relevant. The key question is: how sensitive is the data? Sure, we don't encrypt the SMS messages we send to old phones - if we did the users couldn't read them so it would be pointless sending them in the first place. But the content of those messages is innocent. Likewise we don't encrypt tweets (in or out). What would be the point? If you lose the original then I'm sure our friends at Cheltenham will have a backup.... We can do nothing about the telcos using their geolocation features to track the whereabouts of phones. But that's really not a Sukey issue - cos the same issues apply to anyone using a mobile phone for any purpose at any dem. You could of course advocate people leave their own fones at home and buy a disposable and untraceable (yeah, right!) phone just for the dem. Good luck with that one. You "continue to urge nobody to trust a protest tool until these concerns are properly addressed" - yet I'm still to see a concise description of what these purported concerns are. A cynical man might say: "I would urge nobody to take any notice of a self important pompous windbag who seems to want to obstruct something he clearly doesn't understand". I've extended an invitation to you privately to come along to a hackathon and to help us. And I extend it again. This genuine and heartfelt invitation remains open - come along, understand what we're doing, add your experience and knowledge to the pot and help to shape the design. Get into a positive frame of mind and be a part of this. Make something happen. Gausie

mwg66 16y ago

Thanks for answering. You continue to ignore my legitimate concerns, however.

TimHardy 16y ago
It's Saturday night/Sunday morning and I think I'm the only idiot who didn't go out and have fun after weeks of hard work ;) Can I direct you to a discussion of these topics here: http://visionon.tv/forum/-/message_boards/view_message/45043 http://visionon.tv/forum/-/message_boards/view_message/45043 If the responses there don't answer all your questions, please come back to me. In fact, email the sukey team and address it in the body "attention Tim Hardy" or contact me via the address on the About page on beyondclicktivism and I promise you I will make sure that each and every one of your legitimate concerns is addressed. Security is highly important to us and if we have failed to communicate that clearly then we need to do better. We are receiving literally thousands of emails, tweets and phone calls, including requests for interviews and clarifications from press around the world. We have a shoe-string budget, no equipment beyond our own personal phones and laptops, no office space beyond what we can borrow for free. None of us are paid for our work on Sukey and many of us also have full-time careers. Please be patient with us. All concerns will be addressed as soon as possible - but there are only so many nights you can do without sleep :)
- mwg66 16y ago
  Thanks for taking the time and the link. But I'm not sure that thread answers any of the above concerns, really. "We have a shoe-string budget, no equipment beyond our own personal phones and laptops, no office space beyond what we can borrow for free. None of us are paid for our work on Sukey and many of us also have full-time careers." I wont point out the benefits of actually being "open" in then. Limited resources can traditionally be overcome with collaborative development. Again, I commend the effort. But I continue to urge nobody to trust a protest tool until these concerns are properly addressed. These are not difficult questions and the continued absence of answers only confirms my fears for the project.
  - Gausie 16y ago
    "Some minds are like concrete - thoroughly mixed and permanently set" - Benjamin Franklyn or Karl Marx or John Lennon (or insert any other name you like) We're hoping to get code up onto the git today, maybe tomorrow. The guy who's volunteered to do it spent the evening at a party then the night at the New Cross library occupation. He's just gone to bed. I'm sure you'll find something to moan about in the code when you see it - i read negativity towards the entire project from your very first paragraph. When you trawl through the code you'll note that no personal identifiers are stored anywhere. We had to finish the proof of concept in a rush so you'll also see function stubs that do nothing, inconsistencies in APIs, poorly commented code and incredible inefficiencies. These flag some of the areas of future development. But you'll also note that the unfinished or inefficient bits are to do with user functionality. Anything to do with security is not compromised. But I'm not sure any of this is really relevant. The key question is: how sensitive is the data? Sure, we don't encrypt the SMS messages we send to old phones - if we did the users couldn't read them so it would be pointless sending them in the first place. But the content of those messages is innocent. Likewise we don't encrypt tweets (in or out). What would be the point? If you lose the original then I'm sure our friends at Cheltenham will have a backup.... We can do nothing about the telcos using their geolocation features to track the whereabouts of phones. But that's really not a Sukey issue - cos the same issues apply to anyone using a mobile phone for any purpose at any dem. You could of course advocate people leave their own fones at home and buy a disposable and untraceable (yeah, right!) phone just for the dem. Good luck with that one. You "continue to urge nobody to trust a protest tool until these concerns are properly addressed" - yet I'm still to see a concise description of what these purported concerns are. A cynical man might say: "I would urge nobody to take any notice of a self important pompous windbag who seems to want to obstruct something he clearly doesn't understand". I've extended an invitation to you privately to come along to a hackathon and to help us. And I extend it again. This genuine and heartfelt invitation remains open - come along, understand what we're doing, add your experience and knowledge to the pot and help to shape the design. Get into a positive frame of mind and be a part of this. Make something happen. Gausie